- cross-posted to:
- opensource@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- opensource@programming.dev
I needed another corded mouse and this time around I thought of @PKL@mastodon.social and @pronk@mastodon.social instead of Logitech’s shareholders. These guys make open source mice among other open source hardware under the brand Ploopy. You can order one from them, assembled or as a kit, or you could print and build it entirely by yourself.
The mouse itself is pretty great. Coming from a long line of Logitech (MX518/G5/G500/G502), it’s a bit larger than what I’m used to but I think I’m getting accustomed to it.
Here’s another shot of it:
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Ew
Those layer lines look like a perfect place for all sorts of shit to gather and stick to.
If one has sweaty hands - stay away from 3D-printed / soft plastic shell mice.
I couldn’t agree more. I also hate when mice or keyboards can not be easily disassembled to be properly cleaned. In this case I guess it’s a matter of printing precision and/or material (don’t have my own printing experience, so maybe somebody else can comment on it)
Many people will say “just sand it down”. But the extruder-printed plastic is still going to be porous as heck. A perfect place for germs.
Personally, I’d use the 3D model to create a negative mold of sorts, and then cast it out of something more human-friendly. But I haven’t looked at the complexity of this model, this would have to be designed accordingly.
Super cool and I totally see the appeal, but at nearly 3x the price of my Logitech g502 for a 3d printed mouse with a technically inferior sensor, it’s a big ask.
I’ve been using this mouse for almost a year now. No complaints.
I’ve got to say “Ploopy” is one of the absolute worst names I’ve ever seen. Before I even saw the picture, I thought “I bet it looks like shit.”
I’m sorry but that’s such a ploopy take. You can’t just judge something by it’s name 🙄
Opensource projects often have terrible names.
Gimp, libreoffice, lemmy, Apache… just the ones that come to mind.
the fuck is wrong with LibreOffice?
Ploopy fills my hand really well
“I like resting my hand on my Ploopy”
It almost sounds like a vintage game sound, like “bleep bloop”, but worse, fecally worse.
It’s like an alien name out of Rick and Morty. 😂
you mean you dont like my plumbus? what about glorp?
it gives me a general “its probably entirely shit”. that’s really a bad name.
After reading up it sounds like a decent product but they should definitely consider rebranding.
Now do printers.
I often wonder how difficult it would be to create an aftermarket control board for existing printers.
pretty stupid that we can print in 3 dimensions well, while 2-dimension remains locked behind capitalism.
I have written a more detailed comment on it before, but 2d printing is much more technically complicated than 3D printing, and the resolution is literally an order of magnitude difference (0.2mm vs <42um) and the printer has to print full color on any surface with microdots in a very very short time. People would throw the printer out if it took 10 minutes for a single paper like a large first layer takes in 3D printing.
We were ok with dot matrix printers. We are and will be ok with black and white prints. Open Source community will be ok with a slow and ugly print. The company just need to allow their monopoly to be broken. I don’t think they will.
Yes please!
I bought a Ploopy Thumb a few years ago. I assembled it myself, and was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was (when actually following the instructions).
The small button on the right has broken twice, which wasn’t a problem because I just downloaded the stl file and reprinted the button assembly.
I wanted horizontal scrolling, so I used QMK to make the trackball a scroll wheel when the right side button is pressed (that may explain the faster button wear). It was surprisingly easy, and there was even a comment in the source code pointing out which line I should modify for horizontal scrolling support. I guess they expected people to want this feature.
The price is high, but I don’t expect to buy another mouse unless my needs change. The open source hardware and software is excellent, making repairability 10/10. The edges of the buttons are slightly rough, but I have the 3d printing files, so I get to choose what material it’s made of and what post processing / smoothing is used. It hasn’t bothered me enough to do anything about it.
While I can’t recommend a trackball mouse to anyone, I can recommend Ploopy. It’s one of the few products that I feel like I actually own.
How do you use a trackball mouse? Does moving the mouse and moving the trackball both move the pointer? Or one moves the pointer and the other does something else?
The mouse stays in one location with grippy feet and the trackball moves the cursor. There is no sensor for mouse movement. It does take a while to get used to.
The reason I chose it was that I didn’t have enough desk space to move a mouse. I barely even had enough space to put the mouse. Now that I’ve moved house, I just like the novelty. It’s not as accurate as a regular mouse.
I would love a mouse that could do both regular movement and trackball movement so I could have 4 axis inputs. Sadly, I haven’t found any like that.
It’s not as accurate as a regular mouse.
This is not true of all trackballs. Some can be more accurate than a mouse with the push of a button.
How’d you make the surface this smooth?
Overuse and poor lighting.
I know some people have used an acetone vapor bath with ABS prints. I’ve never looked into what works with PLA.
Just to save the heartache, acetone vapor does not work with pla.
LOL, makes sense. I’m considering using epoxy. Seems like there’s a product that can be brushed on. It fills the gaps. Can be painted if desired.
I’d be interested to see how well it works.
I’ll try to remember to post if I end up doing it.
What I really want is this, but with a trackpad instead of a trackball.
They do have a trackpad, but not in this shape.
I was surprised when I started using the Steamdeck. The Steamdeck’s trackpad felt almost identical to my trackball mouse, and it took effectively no time to get used to it.
The advantage of a trackball over a trackpad is that you can spin the ball for high movement speed, then stop it after a set time for fairly accurate distance. A trackball (or trackpad) will never be as accurate as a regular moue, but it is surprisingly usable (after a few months or practice).
I’ve used several trackballs, but they have all been seriously uncomfortable for me and my specific brand of RSI. My current “mouse” is a Steam Controller, but using it one-handed isn’t great due to the uneven weight distribution. I also have much better accuracy using a trackpad vs a trackball.
Ideally, I just want a Steam Controller cut in half with a more confortable grip that doesn’t dig into my palm.
I hope someone makes something like this that looks just like IO1.1
Is it comfortable in the hand? The surface looks super rough
All Ploopy’s stuff looks rough. I think they’re 3D-printing them. Maybe one day they’ll progress to something that gives a nicer result.
I was looking at their trackballs but the ambidextrous ones look awkwardly tiny and have rattly bearings, in addition to the rough finish. I support what they’re doing but I wish the products were a bit less prototypey.
The whole point is that it’s open source and they want people to be able to print them themselves.
I think they’re 3D-printing them. Maybe one day they’ll progress to something that gives a nicer result
Yes they are 3D printed
Poorly 3D printed.
The layering issue could be solved by orienting the object at a 45° angle
Or even smaller layer height. That looks like .2 or .24 minimum.
I could reprint the housing one day, when I get a printer myself. 😂
Yeah, definitely 3D printed.
It looks rough, but it’s actually fairly comfortable.The only bit that bothered me was the edge of one of the buttons, and a nail file fixed that in seconds.
Looks like a bitch to clean. Gonna get all sorts of grease collecting in those grooves…
Theoretically, you can mold it to fit your hand but the tolerances and mountings make that a hassle.
As for the print itself? Most people just do a quick print and have the telltale ridges from layers. But you can futz with settings to improve the smoothness or just finish the print itself. At which point it is not going to be as smooth as injection molding but it will be more “different” than “bad”.
Stupid question from someone who’s never 3d printed anything - can you just sand these things smoother?
It depends how it was printed.
As a SUPER simplified basic: Any 3d print consists of walls/perimeters and infill. The walls are the exterior surfaces of the print. The infill is what is inside. And the vast majority of prints tend to be sparse infills. So rather than solid plastic beneath those walls, you mostly just have air and a mesh structure of some form.
So if the wall is thick enough (generally referred to as “number of walls”)? Sure. If it isn’t? You’ll just see the void inside the shell itself and make things much worse.
What is generally done to reduce “3d printed texture” is a mixture of smaller print layers (so the ridges are much thinner), printing with more walls, and actually lightly melting the exterior surface (either through chemicals or heat).
VKB are probably the kings of the mid-range sicko HOTAS market and I am like 90% certain they 3d print the shell of their sticks for the Gladiator (?). But they do such a good job that I genuinely can’t be certain. Whereas the vast majority of ploopy builds… aren’t that.
It feels good. I’m thinking of smoothing it with epoxy but it’s not necessary.
Only as good as your 3d printer and settings I’d say
its 3d printed so it has layer lines. it can be improved or processed to be smoother though.
Layer lines, too expensive.
Looks less comfortable than one of those 10~15€ brandless mouses at MediaMarkt
layer lines can be sanded down during making and/or improved upon massively if you are fine with it taking much longer to print. or own a better printer.
the price is steep, but its pre-made and post processed. i think the real value of it is in making it yourself for the price of the components and raw plastic if you already own a printer.
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sadly don’t have one near. but its a good idea too.
Layer lines
You say “free hand grip for less strain” weird.
What is your experience with the scroll wheel? Some time ago I was interessted in a Ploopy but the non clicky scrollwheel put me off.
I have the same mouse, and that scroll wheel is unusable. It requires a ton of effort to just scroll tiny amounts because the sensitivity is waaay too low and it cannot be adjusted. The rest of the mouse is really nice because it runs QMK.
I set up drag scrolling as a workaround for the shitty scroll wheel, which allows you to press a button (or a combination of buttons) and then use the mouse’s optical sensor as an omnidirectional scrolling device until you release the button.
I set that up on my Ploopy Adept hand trackball mouse as well. It’s my favorite mouse I’ve ever used.
My scroll wheel was very stiff and irritating at first. It did loosen over time and is now completely useable. It doesn’t free-spin, but it also doesn’t take a lot of force to move.
The lack of clicking is a little disconcerting, but not a deal-breaker for me. I guess you could add an extra part to make it click — like putting a playing card in the spokes of a bicycle wheel.
Because I bought the trackball mouse, I changed the trackball to scroll when a button is held. I now have horizontal and vertical scrolling, and don’t use the scroll wheel except for middle clicking.
It’s alright. It’s not as nice as the flywheel/clickwheel on G502 but it’s alright. It doesn’t accidentally spin for me so far. I imagine one of the custom buttons could be used to enable/disable scrolling along with some script, if it becomes a problem.
I keep thinking I should give a ploopy a shot but I’ve increasingly grown to like/need vertical mice and, like most ploopy related efforts, it is mostly “you CAN do it” with nobody ever having even tried because it requires pretty hefty redesigns of almost every part to mount things correctly.
No left hand options 😪
Just turn the printer upside down, dummy!
Most slicers allow you to mirror parts very easily
The PCB doesn’t look ambidextrous. Maybe there’s a way to mirror that too but it’s probably not as easy. And you’d have to get it custom built.
Ohh OK, yeah that would be tricky unless you’re an EE
