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we’ve got plenty of rich to eat
It’s a little late to start a food garden. You won’t be getting any harvests for a while, and it won’t be much. Best to stock up on shelf-stable goods now, and build community for mutual aid.
It’s spring in most of the northern hemisphere and therefore the next months are the best time to start a garden. Yes, chances are that you won’t feed your family from it. But it’s fun, it is a great way to get fresh food and if you have the option to do it, you should
Oh, yeah. Gardening is lovely, just don’t expect to be able to feed yourself (or anyone else) in the immediate future by planting some tomatoes by your kitchen window, starting now. It would be a while before you could harvest, and it would be a very small yield, assuming you get a good healthy crop. A lot of people act like the average Joe or Jane could feed their household and neighbors with minimal effort and a few square feet of free space by their window, when that’s just not realistic - at least, not for most people.
It totally depends on your living and garden conditions. If you have the space and the current climate for it you can totally use your garden to save money on groceries. This will not feed your whole household but can help to save some money and make everything more resilient. Plant an apple tree and you will maybe not have apples this year, but in the next year you can get your first apples. My tree is now 4 years old and is growing several kilos of apples every year and will for the next decades. Plant a cherry tree. Raspberries. Redcurrant. Other fruit trees. Those plants will grow every year and provide you with a lot of healthy food and will not take that much time to grow and cultivate. So it is a great time to start - you might get some results later this year, but next year will be great.
All I have is tomatoes…guess that will have to do.
Who wants a kitchen garden?
Who wants to care for a kitchen garden? It’s not as simple as putting seeds into the ground and waiting until it grows. You have to dig up the site. You have to water it in a drought. You have to pull out the weed. You might even have to fight against insects, or use fertilizer. 19 out of 20 people I knew had given up on the idea of a kitchen garden.
I am a successful gardener.
You can’t and don’t want to eat 20lbs of tomato in a week. I use maybe 2-4lbs and the rest of it rots or has to be given away. I’m lucky if consume 1/4 of what I produce.
And that’s how crops come in, all at the same time in abundance. It’s not like you can pick 4 tomatoes each day and they just hang out for weeks on the vine. There is about a 4-6 week widow in which all the stuff you have spent 5 months growing, is edible off the vine. You start in April and then you don’t really get anything until August, and then by Mid Sept, the plants stop producing and are dead by Oct.
And if you want to preserve it, that’s a lot more work and you need the space and equipment to store dozens and dozens of jarred/canned veg. And at that point it’s no longer a small kitchen garden.
oh and by the way if you give me that ‘community sharing!’ stuff. no. literally everyone’s crops are also coming in at the same time. that’s why you see people leaving baskets of veg on the stops all around and nobody takes it, because they already have their own from their own gardens.
That is very different from a commercial farm who is able to have dozens of rotating crops and crop varieties with the expertise to manage it and also the ability to distribute it commercially.
Also, groundhogs will fuck up your garden, and they dig tunnels and climb fences. You have to basically build a big cage around your garden, floor included.
one of my friend has a pretty elaborate garden setup.
he has a groundhog execution chamber too. he has to gas and kill about 6 of them each year.
Not my garden :) groundhogs don’t exist here
By design by those who refuse to escape their mysanthropic anthrocidal circular reasoning.
That’s an interesting way of putting it
Plant a vegetable garden?WHERE?
DO YOU THINK I CAN AFFORD A YARD?
Container garden. I even had one on my North facing balcony in Baltimore.
Hydroponic indoor gardening is the way. (I assume - I don’t grow any food hahahahaha)
If they cannot afford a yard what makes you think they have space to spare inside to grow stuff??
Was thinking of those small footprint plant towers that were circulating online a decade or so ago. Look like big upright pipes with holes in the sides for plants. Continually circulating water inside. I’m sure they’re expensive now but I bet we could throw one together without too much effort if we had the knowledge.
i would, but power prices are making it impossible to be a alternative
Do you think power draw would be that much for hydroponic/aquaponic? Always just watched that and auto gardening from afar
it kinda dosent matter if its hydroponic or soil they still need the same amount of light, and that depends on the crop, but basically there isnt a crop that could feed you if u only have a normal sized flat, even if u stack micro greens to the top and sleep in the bathtub
I have a copy of this little pamphlet called Fugitive Gardens, which is all about gardening in small spaces, such as a fire escape.
It’s all fun and games until there’s a fire.
Is this a good time to mention that animal ag is the most wasteful form of food we have? Further, consider capitalism and western rich countries. If the choice is between feedin poor people and feeding cows, what choice will the money make?
I dunno, we grow huge amounts of corn for ethanol to replace 15% of the fuel for cars… And it would be multiple times more efficient (in terms of land use) to cover that area with solar panels and phase out ICEs for EVs.
A lot of dreamers here who never actually tried to grow something. A lot of YouTube video knowledge but no practical experience.
Its damn difficult to grow your own food. I think buying canned goods and storing them is the best option for almost everyone instead of trying to grow your own.
Growing food isn’t hard but takes knowledge and time, and even then there is no way in fuck you can be self sufficient.
I planted horseradish into the ground, neglected it, and it grew anyway.
I agree that people should definitely keep a good store of non-perishable foods in case of hard times, but you also should try to grow food as well. I don’t think anyone is trying to say it’ll be easy, like anything at first it is difficult. It’s definitely worth trying though, if you can and have the space. Like I said, don’t go all in as your only option, keep non-perishable foods on hand, like canned goods, or dried goods. If you’re able to grow your own food you get fresh fruits and veggies, and you won’t use up as many canned goods.
Haha, are you speaking from your own practical experience, in which you failed and decided to buy canned food instead?
It’s not easy, but it’s not impossible either. It depends on your circumstances.
And there’s an in between as well: grow some of your own food and buy canned foods as well. Or share a garden with people who know what they’re doing.
Bro my cacti died. Both of them.
Cacti are more difficult than other plants to grow.
ok you can stay away from the garden and take a more motivational role
This is how capitalism starts
Good. Captialism is based
Buying dry food is probably better than canned. It’s lighter, stores for longer, and is much more compact.
Are we talking like, bags of rice and beans?
Rice, lentils, peas, beans, wheat berries, barley, oats, etc. But if you buy in large bulk (which you should do for the cost savings), you should repack the goods into smaller individually sealed containers. Because a 25kg bag of rice, once opened, will take a small family all year to get through, and having an open bag of rice attracts rodents, weevils, moisture, mould and dust. Pack it down into half kilo or 1kg containers, ideally vacuum sealed or with some other preventative treatment. Then only open 1 container at a time.
This is good advice not just for building resilience against food cost shocks, but just generally good practice for saving money by buying in bulk and repacking yourself. Around here,a 25kg bag of rice costs me about $40, but buying 25kgs of rice in individual kilo bags at the supermarket costs $3.50 per kilogram for the cheap stuff, or $7.50 for the premium stuff ($88 or $188 respectively for 25kg worth)
As someone who has been trying to grow tomatoes in containers for about 10 years, I can confirm that it really is difficult. It took me about 5 years to achieve fairly consistent results and get the hang of properly amending the soil, planting correctly, watering, pruning etc. And I still have years where the production is really low, largely due to fungal diseases.
see what you should have done is just toss some rotten ones onto your driveway or behind the shed and ignored them and next year you’d have had the biggest baddest bitchingest tomato plants you’d ever seen
We planted tomatoes on the backyard last year and we drowned in them, kilos and kilos of the stuff
It also would’ve been a lot cheaper to get the same amount from the grocery store 😅
Yeah. I have the largest respect for people who manage to get that far. It really is not easy.
Not wanting to add complexity or anything but have you considered trying a deep water culture (DWC) hydroponic system? That’s all a fancy way to say a dark colored large 5-ish gallon bucket of water with specific hydroponic nutrients dissolved in the water (I use a generic balanced powder and it works nicely) and an air pump to keep the water from going stagnant. As long as you keep the air pump dry, you can do the whole thing outside without issue. I hang mine under a plastic camera guard and it works nicely.
I’m terrible at growing things in dirt because dirt remembers what you did to it (holds salts and nutrient excess unless you flush the soil), but hydroponics is a totally different thing. You can just toss the water and give it new when it starts showing signs of nutrient deficiency/toxicity. The roots end up massive and healthy and everything grows faster since there’s zero resistance in the growth medium. Just sucking up everything they can. Tho since the typical advice is to just completely toss the water at least weekly once it’s grown up (great for outside gardens or houseplants after the tomato buckets), you usually don’t end up with imbalances like that at all.
Proper care of a hydro system makes for a bountiful harvest most years, and if you want, you can very easily keep a tomato clone over winter to keep some smaller amount of production going. Hydro works very well inside because you don’t bring most of the bugs you would with a dirt pot.
Throw like 4 standard screw-in daylight bulbs of 60+watt-equivalent leds and you’ve got a grow space. No fancy expensive nonsense required.
Yeah, my peppers got too much calcium and had black ends. Cucumbers got too yellow. Cabbage worked fine, but I fucking hate cabbage. Beans were seriously lacking. Shit certainly isn’t easy, and it’s way to easy to think, hey, I can do this no problem!
Man your soil is farked . Start composting
The best is community roles in a collective. If you try to do everything yourself you’ll fail but in specializing you’ll succeed. For produce, one neighbor specializes in tomatoes, the other cucumber, the other onions, etc etc… that’s how human society survived in tough times and that’s actually as a species how we’re supposed to operate. As a community. Another reason why everyone is so dang lonely and depressed. Anyways, I digress…
Yep, find your local CSA (Community Supported Agriculture) and get a membership
As a species we were never supposed to operate by giving all labour and spoils to tree people, it’s speciciede
I grow a lot of stuff in a relatively small space. Sometimes I have to give stuff away because it’s too much for me. Maybe living in a tropical region helps? or maybe because I grow mostly native stuff that needs near to zero care.
Living in a tropical region definitely helps. Up north, the selection is difficult. Where and when you plant different items is really important, since you can very easily kill the plant if you plant it too early or late
That’s interesting to know. I never paid attention to timing when planting. We can plant most things in any season without much difference around here. Sometimes, things grow “spontaneously”, like the papaya tree that appeared last year and is already mature and giving fruits. Looks like I’m playing real-life stardew valley in easy mode >.<
LOL yeah. Stuff actually grows in tropical regions! :p
I’m happy for you there. (Although I imagine pest control gets interesting haha)
Southwestern U.S desert? Yeah, another story. Hydroponics are basically the best bet for your typical suburbia-dweller, I think.
Indeed, I have some trouble with pests, especially with the guava tree, but I’ve been using the technique of covering the young fruits in clothing bags so that pests can’t access them, and it’ has been effective so far. Needs a bit of work, but it’s cheap and doesn’t need using any chemicals. Sometimes, a naughty possum comes and takes something away, but it’s not so frequent, so I let them take their share lol. I once planted a broccoli that was growing so big and nice-looking, but had it suddenly disappear, eaten by a group of caterpillars.
But I simply avoid the things that attracted pests and favor the ones that grow without much need of maintenance, like acerola, cassava, some pumpkins, passion fruits, some wild grape-like fruits, and so on. My backyard looks like an abandoned house with the wilds taking over, i admit, but well, I like it that way…
I read the title in the same voice as youtube’s “That’s how the law works.”
Most chemical fertilizer is synthesised from LNG.
The two biggest exporters are Russia (sanctioned) and Qatar (all plants shut down)
Good thing my country exports 90% of its agricultural produce, so if we start getting hungry then we’ll just export a bit less.
(We learned the hard way a long time ago when we ran out of potatoes.)
Ireland was exporting food during the potato famine.
Don’t assume your food won’t continue to be sold overseas if the growers/wholesalers can make more money that way.
Ireland was exporting food during the potato famine.
*Britian was exporting food from Ireland during the famine.
Regardless of nationality, don’t expect your billionaire overlord to have ethics if it comes at the cost of a 0.7% income loss
What billionaire overlord? Irish agriculture is made up of over 100,000 independant family farms, and each farmers income is on average about €40-50k.
We produce enough beef to support almost 3x the population and enough dairy for 10x the population.
Ireland is the 2nd most food secure country in the world.
That sounds impressive, I never heard about it. Do you have some resource about it? I don’t know how to search for it and Google is, like, you know
Sure:
Sustainable Food Systems Ireland
- However, Ireland continues to be the largest net exporter of Beef in the Northern Hemisphere
- There are approximately 137,500 family farms in Ireland with an average size of 32.4 hectares per holding according to the Farm Structure Survey of 2016.
The report, highlights that average farm income is forecast to reach €48,500 in 2025
The scale of our farming output relative to our domestic population of 4.9m people mean that Ireland exports some 90% of its net beef output, making Ireland the largest beef exporter in Europe and one of the largest in the world (Department of Agriculture, Food and Marine, 2019). Similarly, 85% of dairy output is exported.
No, you have to expect your government to do that, which is why almost the entire world is not hyper capitalist choochoo trains
I mean, you exported 90% of your agricultural produce back then, too.
Natural gas is used to produce hydrogen, which is then used in the Haber-Bosch process to produce ammonia from nitrogen in the atmosphere. Only about 6% of natural gas is used to produce hydrogen, so even if the price were to rise substantially, we could divert natural gas from other uses and have plenty for making ammonia. We also have other ways of producing hydrogen, it’s just that natural gas is more established.
PEM electrolyzers paired with cheap solar in countries with high insolation can now produce hydrogen for less than the cost of natural gas, but we’re only recently starting to see the construction of the large-scale green ammonia plants needed to accomplish this. Egypt is currently constructing a 100-MW green ammonia plant powered by solar energy. Even if you didn’t have enough PEM eletrolyzers you could still just pass current through some salt water and produce hydrogen, albeit much less efficiently.
It’s not going to be a catastrophic issue.
Adding to that, logistics are such that direct impact will be felt strongest in places like India that rely heavily on Qatari LNG to make fertilizer, but many places have other sources of both gas and fertilizer. Americas, EU, Russia and China will get by because they have their own supply and will be only affected by price increase
Fun fact: Fritz Haber, the German guy that invented the Haber-Bosch process is the same Fritz Haber that developed a way to use the chlorine gas in chemical warfare. He was personally overseeing its effect in the battle of Ypres.
Clara Immerwahr, who was married to Fritz Haber and was a successful chemist in her own right, spoke out against his research as a “perversion of the ideals of science” and “a sign of barbarity, corrupting the very discipline which ought to bring new insights into life.” She ended her own life the day before he traveled to the eastern front to oversee the use of chlorine gas against Russian troops.
Dude knew his chemicals
Habe
rn wir einen an der Waffel? Ja
Thank you for explaining the process, because the pro-fuel-cell pact doesn’t understand that hydrogen isn’t free and production is still heavily reliant on fossil fuels.
“Oh it comes from ammonia”. Alright, where does the ammonia come from???
You’re just moving the problem around, not fixing anything.
You’ll make hydrogen from renewable energy. That is the point.
But why not just make electricity from renewable energy?
Like, I get the benefit of fuel cells, but people need to realize that hydrogen closer to a battery than a fuel source itself. You’re expending energy now to make storage of energy that can be tapped later.
It’s good for places where vehicles can’t tap into the grid and need dense energy storage (i.e. transoceanic freighters), or where long charging times are infeasible (like long-range trucking).
And probably good for grid-level storage, too.
But for a typical family car/commuter? There’s really no point. You’re adding more steps in energy conversion, and losing efficiency at every additional step (thanks to basic physics), and to gain what? A faster refueling time on a long road trip? An experience closer to what we were used to with ICE-cars? An experience that really isn’t that great anywhere that has a winter. Or an excessively hot summer.
Maybe for people who can’t have a charger at home, even an L1, but there are better solutions for that (like…adding an outlet? Making landlords responsible for providing power whenever there is parking? More municipal charging locations?)
You can’t fertilize crops with electricity, nor can you eat it
Making food from pure electricity would be a cool sci-fi thing
You can’t store electricity by itself. The problem we are facing is massive curtailment, i.e. massive overproduction of green energy that can’t be utilized. There needs to be way of storing it at a massive scale. There is no feasible way of storing that much energy in conventional batteries.
If you can acknowledge that hydrogen is needed for dense energy storage and grid-level storage, then you should realize that we will eventually have a huge hydrogen infrastructure, and production capacity to match. That will create very cheap green hydrogen, and will mirror what happened with solar and wind.
Cheap hydrogen alone will drive large-scale adoption of hydrogen cars, regardless of the popularity of BEVs. A lot of people will choose hydrogen cars (possible e-fuel cars too, since e-fuels can be made from hydrogen) simply because it is akin to an ICE-car in usage.
The other point is that battery production is not green and is very resource intensive. Hydrogen cars let’s you avoid that almost entirely. In the long-run, it will be pointless to care about efficiency when green energy becomes nearly free. That suggests hydrogen, not batteries, is the better idea.
Farmers almost uniformly over-apply N fertilizer. Having it be more expensive and forcing them to look into more efficient ways of applying fertilizer and managing nutrients is not a bad thing.
Unless it just causes the crop to cost more without any change in behavior.
Farmers are price-takers not price-makers. The prices they receive are driven by speculation on the commodities markets (even for crops not traded on the market).
Since they can’t control the price they receive for their crop, they are very sensitive to any change in the cost of inputs. Determining how much to spent on inputs is the part of their profitablity they can control. So widespread behavioral change is usually pretty close to immediate.
we could divert natural gas from other uses and have plenty for making ammonia. We also have other ways of producing hydrogen
We can’t do any of those in a scale large enough to replace the destruction and have it online for the next planting season on the North Hemisphere. Or the next one on the South Hemisphere either, btw. Or the following ones for each.
It might not be a massive scientific issue but I bet prices will still rise and the news will be fearmongering causing pricing to go up and never come back down. It’s a capitalism issue and corruption and greed.
Also, while it’s still new, plasma nitrogen has the potential to rapidly scale if the economics stop making sense for Haber-Bosch nitrogen.
Grow a garden where? On what fucking land lmao
You bought land, right? Right!?
whatever land you can take.
some cities have programs that allocate park or unused land for community gardens. some even give you a small budget to build infrastructure like beds or buying dirt.
grow staple foods that have long storage life: squash, pumpkins, carrots, rutabaga, potatoes. these can stay on your shelf for 3-8 months if stored properly. personally I have about 12 (3-5lbs each) spaghetti squash sitting since harvest in November that will be fine until about August.
secondary are things you can freeze or dry: squash, peppers, peas, green beans, Lima beans, kidney beans, cabbage, beets. I dry most of these and toss them into soups and ramen.
tertiary are foods you can process and preserved through canning, drying, or freezing: tomatoes (sauce or breaded), okra (breaded), etc…
your diet will change, but you’ll feel good about what you’re cooking because you grew it.
also, stay away from petroleum based fertilizers. if you add too much or too often you can burn your soil out and kill your crop. if you used naturally derived fertilizers you don’t have to be as careful.
good luck!
Plant the 3 sisters (beans, corn, squash/pumpkin) together in a small area to maximize shelf stable production. You will need to do a small amount of research on planting times but the times are fast approaching.
You will need to do a small amount of research on planting times
And climate zone. There are many places where it is too cold.
Not everyone lives like sardines in concrete jungles.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/urban-and-rural-population
More than half the world lives in urban areas and farm land is by and far industrial.
Yeah I get that, what I’m saying is most of us can’t afford land, let alone a house. Cool if you can but I’m not lucky.
Yes, it’s a shame how the system is designed to trap people into paying rent so they never save enough to own property.
You should always feel free to grow a garden, but you shouldn’t necessarily expect it to be cheaper than buying food. Especially the first year, if you don’t live in a place where you can just dig up some dirt and chunk seeds in it. Even if you do you should make sure the soil isn’t literally toxic first, especially since it’s common to have a buildup of things like lead or arsenic from now-outlawed fertilizers that can be absorbed by plants.
My grandparents planted maybe half an acre? Of crops for 10 people, and it was supplemental, not a complete replacement. It also takes a lot of work and can go to shit if the weather is bad. You can account for some of this by planting a variety of crops, trying to head off drainage and shade issues before they start, and with supplemental watering. But don’t expect everything to be super productive every year, especially in the age of climate change. My sister had some plants not put out at all last year (peppers).
That’s the thing. Gardening is more expensive than buying food, in the United States and Western Europe, now, because the real cost of food production is heavily subsidized by our governments and we guarantee yields by throwing tons of fossil fuels and their derivatives at the soil of corporate megafarms. There’s a nonzero chance that’s going to change shortly - probably within a generation - for a ton of reasons including but not limited to little Donnie assassinating the supreme leader of Iran for shits and giggles.
Grow a garden even if it’s not economically efficient. Do it now, when you aren’t relying on it for food, and get the issues with soil and drainage and so on worked out now. Learn to save seeds and select the best growing plants each year so that, as your climate changes, the varieties you grow change with it. That way you’ll have the skills to do it later, when you really need it.
Piss in a bucket. There’s your ammonia.
You think food prices will come back down after it’s all over?
cue the padme meme!
FACT: Capitalism without regulation has a ratcheting effect on high prices.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
As if you’d need to ask that question…
