Also: I know this blew up, but please only post memes (see sidebar) here from now on. Feel free to posts stuff like this in our sister com c/Socialism (also in the sidebar)
In an 82-page decision, U.S. District Judge Kathleen M. Williams sided with environmental advocates, ordering the state to halt all construction at the site. She also gave Florida 60 days to dismantle fencing, lighting, generators, and waste containers installed to support the project.
Take note: these are the only considerations for your eventual prison
Edit: change ‘your’ to ‘ours’ 🤗 Once prisoners, we are reduced to our costs: fencing, lighting, generators, and waste containers
Fuck yeah, costs!
Government will cover my fencing lighting generators and waste containers; what else do i really need to live?
Real talk though: they’re not using the waste containers. That’s why all the gators.
Please edit, I had an aneurism reading this
That’s fair.
I’m all about giving back unused land. Start with all national and state parks. At least their culture is to respect the land and try to live in harmony.
The thing that gets me, the Australian native people lived here for hundreds of thousands of years, and lived in harmony with nature. Then the brits came in the 1700s, and fucked everything up and pillaged. Fuckin brits.
Tens of thousands, but yes
Tens is a number of thousands!
We agree, fuck all colonisers in the past, now and forever.
No, they literally all have syphilis and are actively hostile to consent.
Land back means all of it.
Well yes eventually, and this salad means all of it, but i do need to choose a first place to put my fork.
It’s a start.
Nanook… You have a familiar name to someone I occasionally see in Chivalry 2. Do you play?
What is? Why are you replying to us?
They mean that giving back the state and national parks is a start to giving back all the land. :)
Thanks for explaining!
do you always get like this when people agree with you?
You misread our tone. We are more confused than anything else.
Why are you using “we” for referring to yourself?
Why the fuck not?
cele is plural
You don’t understand that land back being ALL of the land back not being a true possibility and the responder saying its a start to make light of it still being a good thing? Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
Ah, then we disagree. Thank you for explaining. No, we just didn’t understand what they meant.
It is very difficult when someone else was the one who made the comment and this reply chain is to that entity, not the one replying to all this.
Can we start with Utah instead? Prime ground for experimenation of old weapons that haven’t been played with for about a century, personally I’m rather interested in testing mass deployment of chemical weapons on BYU. Remember the Navajo are originally from Utah.
Well, now everyone knows what happened to Vault 013.
No thank you.
It looks like it was a coalition of groups? Why shit on solidarity unnecessarily?
Because what could be more left than stabbing leftists in the back?
Fuck you, revisionost scum!
the judge ordered them to remove all that stuff so that the tribe could access sites sacred to them. were the other groups also seeking access to sacred Miccosukee sites?
why shit on native americans just to make white people feel good about participating?
What are you talking about? The ruling was based on environmental damage to the Everglades, which is why the other groups were involved.
I’m talking about what the linked article says.
Removal of fencing for tribal access was part of the ruling, true, but Friends of the Everglades was the lead plaintiff, and as the linked article makes clear this was an environmental law ruling. Why can’t we just count this a win all around without distorting the facts?
the facts are that the federal lawsuit didn’t go in their favor until a tribe the federal government signed a treaty with joined it. why do white people have to take everything minorities accomplish and make it their own by distorting the facts?
White people caused the Alligator Alcatraz, but must be thanked for stopping it, despite white people not being the reason why it stopped.
that’s just how liberals are. you gotta give white people their due respect, or they turn on you for being ungrateful.
being an ally of theirs is contingent upon your continued respect and deference to their leadership of the nation. no matter how far we come, POC will always be second class to the white liberal. Malcom X really did say it best when he said the white liberal was the most dangerous enemy.
Court cases take time. Did they cause it to finish? I doubt it. It’s great they also joined it, but it sounds like they aren’t the only cause.
why do white people have to take everything minorities accomplish and make it their own by distorting the facts?
It sounds like you’re the one distorting facts. Giving credit where it’s due is great and important, and one of the things colonizers fail to do. However, you’re now doing the same thing.
I don’t see the post as shitting on solidarity, rather bringing to my attention something that I find helpful in fostering intersectional solidarity
Leftoids when capitalists own land
NOOOO LAND BELONGS TO LE EVERYONE!!!
Leftoids when le noble savages owned land six trillion years ago
RRRREEEEE GIVE IT BACK!!!
Please stop. Land doesn’t belong to anyone. This has to apply to everyone. Or it means nothing.
Obviously in this case it’s a convenient legalism to block an awful prison from being built and there’s no shame there and only joy, but please don’t turn this into a solidarity-shattering, shitflinging competition about what land belongs to who when all land belongs to everyone.
Damn, this comment and “Oh dear. Blocked.” were really unnecessary in tone, because otherwise at least your other comments in this thread seem OK.
Let’s see if 6 months is long enough for you to mature LOL.
it’s kind of admirable how much wrong and stupid you fit into a couple sentences while using the vocabulary of a braindead 4chan user from a decade ago.
Where was I wrong? When I said land doesn’t belong to anyone? Isn’t this meant to be a leftist space? This should be an utterly uncontroversial thing to say.
Your deeply bad faith ‘attempts’ at ‘understanding’ mean that the way you mean anything is going to reliably be obviously wrong, even if i could say the exact same words and be correct.
I’d ask why you’re like this, but…
Thank god for user tags. It’s not the first time I’ve seen this user being confidently wrong on multiple levels.
there is no contradiction between private property abolition and land-back.
private property abolition is about ending rentseeking and recommoning the means of (re)production.
land-back is about self-determination and reparations for the descendants of these genocided peoples; peoples whose destruction still benefits the living descandants of settlers. it’s about returning to broken treaties, ending extractive capitalism on their sacred land, and ending the process of enclosure which cuts them off from their culture, families and neighbours. it’s about restoring rights and laws of stewardship to the people who actually live there and have a connection to the land.
land-back doesn’t mean transferring private property. it means reöpening it and giving indigenous peoples back their right of stewardship.
land-back is private property abolition. it’s also an environmental movement.
Land does belong to you if you live there imo…
Check out “What is Property” by Proudhon.
Yes that’s why colonialism is obviously bad. Personal vs. Private property. Landback isn’t about that though.
Please move to russia or NK or China…my family lived through the USSR and still deals with the shit they caused.
You whine and complain here in the evil capitalism/imperialism countries…just move, go, prove us all wrong how evil our way is.
First of all - all of those countries are Capitalist. Though I would describe Russia as socially fascist.
Second of all - my family also lived through the USSR, and also whines about the shit they caused. Though if you ask them - they’d rather that than the Russia of today.
They’re not wrong about the soviets either, the Soviet Union was far from ideal, but we shouldn’t strive to repeat their mistakes and let our blind ideological faith in liberalism and capitalism make us think we are perfect or that we cannot learn from them.
Marx’s economic ideas for instance are largely true and are incorporated into mainstream economics theory all the same.
All is not as simple as it seems.
I would describe Russia as socially fascist.
words. they do be hard to ken some of times, no?
I would rather the most brutal aztec king or comanche warlord own the place i live than blackrock.
Your weird property fetish should stay on fetlife. Or 4chan if you’re banned from fetlife.
Cool so if I steal your car I can just say that cars don’t belong to anyone, got it
I mean, they shouldn’t, and if you buy one you should be vivisected with rusted sheet metal and left screaming somewhere public. I support the stealing of cars, and also totally random car bombs
You can take anything of mine I don’t use.
If I build a house and then leave it empty for months, and you need shelter - you are welcome to take shelter inside.
The issue with colonialism is among other things, forced resettlement from land these people lived on. But this obviously doesn’t mean the land is owned by those people now, or should be owned in the private property sense by anyone.
[…] forced resettlement from land these people lived on. But this obviously doesn’t mean the land is owned by those people now […]
the subject of this thread is about land that indigenous people who are alive right now had access to before it was turned into a concentration camp right next to their homes.
Well yes, but we need concentration camps. Where else will we dispose of the people we don’t like?
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To be fair, a lot of leftists are pro-nationalism, so it’s not inconsistent for them to demand hundreds of nationalistic ethnostates for indigenous populations. It’s a sad state of affairs
Yeah, I guess I didn’t know that nationalism of all things would be something I’d see leftists defending.
FYI, most “land back” campaigns are more about stewardship than possession. That is to say: there’s no interest in kicking families out of their homes, but instead about managing the land and resources.
That’s the thing though - “managing the land and resources” is effectively in many ways amounts to ownership of the means of production, and that “most” is doing a lot of legwork too. I find the whole concept problematic and I don’t like that this obvious legal victory is being tied to this by leftists here.
I’m just trying to point you in the direction to educate yourself. You’ve got a certain “vibe” towards the concept. I’m giving you an alternate vibe to consider, but I have lived somewhere that ‘land back’ actually happened, and that’s where I came by my vibe.
Read ‘seeing like a state’ and tell me indigenous land management in the americas was worse than what we have now.
I want the means of production producing and sustainable, and ideally egalitarian. This serms like the most politically viable way to do that. Therefore: landback.
