Leftoids when le noble savages owned land six trillion years ago
RRRREEEEE GIVE IT BACK!!!
Please stop. Land doesn’t belong to anyone. This has to apply to everyone. Or it means nothing.
Obviously in this case it’s a convenient legalism to block an awful prison from being built and there’s no shame there and only joy, but please don’t turn this into a solidarity-shattering, shitflinging competition about what land belongs to who when all land belongs to everyone.
it’s kind of admirable how much wrong and stupid you fit into a couple sentences while using the vocabulary of a braindead 4chan user from a decade ago.
Where was I wrong? When I said land doesn’t belong to anyone? Isn’t this meant to be a leftist space? This should be an utterly uncontroversial thing to say.
Your deeply bad faith ‘attempts’ at ‘understanding’ mean that the way you mean anything is going to reliably be obviously wrong, even if i could say the exact same words and be correct.
there is no contradiction between private property abolition and land-back.
private property abolition is about ending rentseeking and recommoning the means of (re)production.
land-back is about self-determination and reparations for the descendants of these genocided peoples; peoples whose destruction still benefits the living descandants of settlers. it’s about returning to broken treaties, ending extractive capitalism on their sacred land, and ending the process of enclosure which cuts them off from their culture, families and neighbours. it’s about restoring rights and laws of stewardship to the people who actually live there and have a connection to the land.
land-back doesn’t mean transferring private property. it means reöpening it and giving indigenous peoples back their right of stewardship.
land-back is private property abolition. it’s also an environmental movement.
First of all - all of those countries are Capitalist. Though I would describe Russia as socially fascist.
Second of all - my family also lived through the USSR, and also whines about the shit they caused. Though if you ask them - they’d rather that than the Russia of today.
They’re not wrong about the soviets either, the Soviet Union was far from ideal, but we shouldn’t strive to repeat their mistakes and let our blind ideological faith in liberalism and capitalism make us think we are perfect or that we cannot learn from them.
Marx’s economic ideas for instance are largely true and are incorporated into mainstream economics theory all the same.
I mean, they shouldn’t, and if you buy one you should be vivisected with rusted sheet metal and left screaming somewhere public. I support the stealing of cars, and also totally random car bombs
If I build a house and then leave it empty for months, and you need shelter - you are welcome to take shelter inside.
The issue with colonialism is among other things, forced resettlement from land these people lived on. But this obviously doesn’t mean the land is owned by those people now, or should be owned in the private property sense by anyone.
[…] forced resettlement from land these people lived on. But this obviously doesn’t mean the land is owned by those people now […]
the subject of this thread is about land that indigenous people who are alive right now had access to before it was turned into a concentration camp right next to their homes.
To be fair, a lot of leftists are pro-nationalism, so it’s not inconsistent for them to demand hundreds of nationalistic ethnostates for indigenous populations. It’s a sad state of affairs
FYI, most “land back” campaigns are more about stewardship than possession. That is to say: there’s no interest in kicking families out of their homes, but instead about managing the land and resources.
That’s the thing though - “managing the land and resources” is effectively in many ways amounts to ownership of the means of production, and that “most” is doing a lot of legwork too. I find the whole concept problematic and I don’t like that this obvious legal victory is being tied to this by leftists here.
I’m just trying to point you in the direction to educate yourself. You’ve got a certain “vibe” towards the concept. I’m giving you an alternate vibe to consider, but I have lived somewhere that ‘land back’ actually happened, and that’s where I came by my vibe.
Read ‘seeing like a state’ and tell me indigenous land management in the americas was worse than what we have now.
I want the means of production producing and sustainable, and ideally egalitarian. This serms like the most politically viable way to do that. Therefore: landback.
NOOOO LAND BELONGS TO LE EVERYONE!!!
RRRREEEEE GIVE IT BACK!!!
Please stop. Land doesn’t belong to anyone. This has to apply to everyone. Or it means nothing.
Obviously in this case it’s a convenient legalism to block an awful prison from being built and there’s no shame there and only joy, but please don’t turn this into a solidarity-shattering, shitflinging competition about what land belongs to who when all land belongs to everyone.
Damn, this comment and “Oh dear. Blocked.” were really unnecessary in tone, because otherwise at least your other comments in this thread seem OK.
Let’s see if 6 months is long enough for you to mature LOL.
it’s kind of admirable how much wrong and stupid you fit into a couple sentences while using the vocabulary of a braindead 4chan user from a decade ago.
Where was I wrong? When I said land doesn’t belong to anyone? Isn’t this meant to be a leftist space? This should be an utterly uncontroversial thing to say.
Your deeply bad faith ‘attempts’ at ‘understanding’ mean that the way you mean anything is going to reliably be obviously wrong, even if i could say the exact same words and be correct.
I’d ask why you’re like this, but…
Thank god for user tags. It’s not the first time I’ve seen this user being confidently wrong on multiple levels.
there is no contradiction between private property abolition and land-back.
private property abolition is about ending rentseeking and recommoning the means of (re)production.
land-back is about self-determination and reparations for the descendants of these genocided peoples; peoples whose destruction still benefits the living descandants of settlers. it’s about returning to broken treaties, ending extractive capitalism on their sacred land, and ending the process of enclosure which cuts them off from their culture, families and neighbours. it’s about restoring rights and laws of stewardship to the people who actually live there and have a connection to the land.
land-back doesn’t mean transferring private property. it means reöpening it and giving indigenous peoples back their right of stewardship.
land-back is private property abolition. it’s also an environmental movement.
Land does belong to you if you live there imo…
Check out “What is Property” by Proudhon.
Yes that’s why colonialism is obviously bad. Personal vs. Private property. Landback isn’t about that though.
Please move to russia or NK or China…my family lived through the USSR and still deals with the shit they caused.
You whine and complain here in the evil capitalism/imperialism countries…just move, go, prove us all wrong how evil our way is.
First of all - all of those countries are Capitalist. Though I would describe Russia as socially fascist.
Second of all - my family also lived through the USSR, and also whines about the shit they caused. Though if you ask them - they’d rather that than the Russia of today.
They’re not wrong about the soviets either, the Soviet Union was far from ideal, but we shouldn’t strive to repeat their mistakes and let our blind ideological faith in liberalism and capitalism make us think we are perfect or that we cannot learn from them.
Marx’s economic ideas for instance are largely true and are incorporated into mainstream economics theory all the same.
All is not as simple as it seems.
words. they do be hard to ken some of times, no?
I would rather the most brutal aztec king or comanche warlord own the place i live than blackrock.
Your weird property fetish should stay on fetlife. Or 4chan if you’re banned from fetlife.
Cool so if I steal your car I can just say that cars don’t belong to anyone, got it
I mean, they shouldn’t, and if you buy one you should be vivisected with rusted sheet metal and left screaming somewhere public. I support the stealing of cars, and also totally random car bombs
You can take anything of mine I don’t use.
If I build a house and then leave it empty for months, and you need shelter - you are welcome to take shelter inside.
The issue with colonialism is among other things, forced resettlement from land these people lived on. But this obviously doesn’t mean the land is owned by those people now, or should be owned in the private property sense by anyone.
the subject of this thread is about land that indigenous people who are alive right now had access to before it was turned into a concentration camp right next to their homes.
Well yes, but we need concentration camps. Where else will we dispose of the people we don’t like?
deleted by creator
To be fair, a lot of leftists are pro-nationalism, so it’s not inconsistent for them to demand hundreds of nationalistic ethnostates for indigenous populations. It’s a sad state of affairs
Yeah, I guess I didn’t know that nationalism of all things would be something I’d see leftists defending.
FYI, most “land back” campaigns are more about stewardship than possession. That is to say: there’s no interest in kicking families out of their homes, but instead about managing the land and resources.
That’s the thing though - “managing the land and resources” is effectively in many ways amounts to ownership of the means of production, and that “most” is doing a lot of legwork too. I find the whole concept problematic and I don’t like that this obvious legal victory is being tied to this by leftists here.
I’m just trying to point you in the direction to educate yourself. You’ve got a certain “vibe” towards the concept. I’m giving you an alternate vibe to consider, but I have lived somewhere that ‘land back’ actually happened, and that’s where I came by my vibe.
Read ‘seeing like a state’ and tell me indigenous land management in the americas was worse than what we have now.
I want the means of production producing and sustainable, and ideally egalitarian. This serms like the most politically viable way to do that. Therefore: landback.