Left unity in that country will be achieved when they all unite behind one candidate regardless and not throw the toys from the cot if they don’t get the candidate they wanted.
Reducing leftism to electoralism is a failed endevour, though. The left is largely aligned on the fact that revolution is necessary for systemic change, so at best you’re reducing the scope of leftism to incorrect and minor lines.
Capitalist countries do not actually elect candidates democratically, ie based on the will of the majority, just through majority vote for preselected candidates that uphold the will of the capitalist class. Democracy is good, but it requires socialism to begin with.
Mamdani is, at most, a social democrat. Reforms under Mamdani, especially in the context of merely a mayoral seat, cannot actually change the economic system to socialism. At most, they can expand welfare, which is not nearly enough to solve the root problems of capitalism. Mamdani proves me correct.
The Democrats know what their voting base wants, but that isn’t what their corporate donors want. You’re saying that people should be happy about the coyotes (or dingos since you are on an Aussie instance) in their yard since at least they aren’t wolves.
I’m saying voting isn’t something you choose to do, it’s something you do regardless. That’s where one of the selfishnesses is; thinking voting isn’t something something earned. Who you vote for is earned, not the task itself.
That’s why the rest of the world struggles with accepting the whiny excuses and the persistent requests for understanding not offered by Americans and open arms welcome when they want to run from a vote result. Because they didn’t vote.
It’s not the electorate’s fault that the legislators choose not to count non-votes as votes against their approved candidates. And no amount of falling in line, or even grovelling, will change that.
What’s more, the fact that an established right was awarded after a fight does not mean that it is what is needed. In fact, it doesn’t even mean that it is what was originally fought for.
And lastly, please don’t feel obliged to comment on topics you clearly aren’t interested in examining seriously; unless you are just a troll, of course.
If you complaint is that you can’t convince people to vote for your policy goals, maybe you need to change your policy goals or learn how to commnicate them more effectively.
LOL - vote super hard even if the choice is between people who want to purge the left and people who collaborate with people who want to purge the left, or even if they have a literal Nazi tattoo from their multiple tours of duty killing brown people as both a US marine and a mercenary (but I repeat myself)
The conservatives that you speak of? They are Liberals. Liberalism is the philosophy of private property, of the rights of property owners, of the merchant class. And what are Democrats? Oh look, also Liberals. The country isn’t like this because of voting. The country is like this because this is its foundation 70% of Americans are represented by 30% of the Senate. That’s by original design and 250 years later it’s not better. You literally cannot fix the Senate by voting. You certainly can’t fix the Senate by voting for a white petite bourgeois mercenary bigot misogynist.
The power center of the Democrat establishment is openly aligning with Trump administration rhetoric about leftists/socialists being a literal threat to our country, while the Trump administration just sentenced peaceful protestors to 50 years and more for distributing leftists literature.
If you think voting for people is going to fix this, well, at least I can say with confidence that they probably won’t be coming after you for being part of an effective resistance.
Oh also, I love that you think it’s whiny that I don’t think we should vote for a fascist mercenary with an obvious record of violence and lack of empathy for his victims and lack of analysis of the system and his part in it who thinks all he should have to do is briefly apologize and then we should all move on. That’s LITERALLY what the “conservatives” you talk about are doing daily. You think we should vote people who act like “conservatives” just because they have a D next to their name?
We’re watching what happens when you vote this way. Obama and Clinton destroyed Libya and changed the entire DHS/ICE apparatus into what Trump used to deploy them to US cities. Obama did that, he made it possible to deploy to US cities. He also deported 3 million people while Trump has barely hit half that. Oh. And Trump’s deportation czar for both of his terms? Obama appointee. Biden did nothing to stop Trump, created absolutely no barriers for Trump, and essentially only chose to use his discretion to make things better, which he knew would be rolled back as soon as an R took office.
You’re the one who is whining saying “Look at those people! They vote religiously and they keep winning! I want that! Please! You’re all so mean for not voting the way I think you should vote” meanwhile Hillary won the popular vote and we still got here, just like when Bush beat Gore. I’m not whining. I am crystal clear that voting D doesn’t do fuck all, and that the Ds are ramping up to participate in the third Red Scare just like they participated in the previous two Red Scares. I am crystal clear that the Ds support genocide, mass murder, military expansion, police expansion, prison expansion, police militarization, racist mass incarceration, collective punishment of dozens of countries resulting in 800k deaths annually, insider trading, the neutering of unions, and on and on.
That’s the longest whinge I’ve seen about this, thus far.
The problem with all of it is that Republican voters have proven all this whiny shit wrong by voting religiously.
Funny how they achieve it with low numbers, yet there’s a million excuses, including division which you highlight here again with your shit about LiB3RaLs, for the left not being able to achieve it.
Great story but it’s another long winded whine. Get out and vote. Every time.
If you get another shot that is. If not, it’s peaceful shutdown but start fucking doing the right thing. Prove Churchill wrong.
Until then you’re just a pack of whingers. Don’t expect the world to understand, you’re here because you couldn’t get off your arse and vote. Magical excuses around it doesn’t change it and your conservatives getting repeated results over a long time disproves any of this whinging.
Yeah, so you’re still wrong. The right wingers aren’t winning because they vote. They’re winning because the country was created for them to win. It’s the default state of the country. The right wingers don’t have nearly as much to do to win as the left does because the country is structureally organized for their policies to win. Again, 70% of the country is represented by 30% of the Senate. That means 70% of the Senate is voted in by only 30% of the country. You can’t fix that by voting. You’d have to empty out the major cities and distribute Democrat voters into every sparsely populated state of the Union and then you’d have to survive the gerrymandering. It’s literally impossible to achieve. The Senate was built to explicitly to be run by the minority of the country. It always has been, it always will be.
You think you can vote that away? Move to South Dakota.
Which only proves my point; those in the more populated areas who refuse to vote are letting their people down.
The fact remains, hardly better than 65% turn out at any time. Everywhere, Republicans compete not just because of the rural thing but because those in the larger areas don’t turn out.
It’s voting. Not only that, there’s a shitload of excuses for it that aren’t offered to other countries. We really are expected to show an understanding not afforded to other nations. Especially now the politics is being exported to us, people who aren’t involved in US elections.
It doesn’t prove your point at all. You have no idea what you’re talking about. If there was perfect voter turnout in all states, the Senate would still be overwhelmingly right wing. But we’ll never get perfect turnout because our politicians are all actively working to repress turnout. 21 million people in the US don’t have government issued photo IDs, and more than half of states require them to vote. Of all income brackets, almost half of the people making less than $20k/yr don’t vote, which says a lot about voting accessibility, transportation, education, and actual freedom to go to the polls instead of the various obligations we put on the poor.
Voting day is not a holiday in the US. Around the world, Sunday is the most common voting day. For the US it’s a Tuesday. People are forced to choose between stepping out of work and voting, and let me tell you in a country created by right wingers who understand how to maintain power if you think a right wing boss isn’t deliberately making it difficult for their black and brown people employees to vote, including docking pay and terminating them, then you don’t know what’s going on.
Only 7% of eligible voters say no candidate represents their views. Only 15% of eligible voters say they don’t vote because they don’t think it’ll matter.
I know you want to want to feel morally superior and berate people but the reality is that you are wrong
I mean a lot of leftists don’t even believe in electoralism so that’s not going to happen.
Frankly, leftist philosophies and values are so diverse I don’t see true leftist unity happening in any sense. Best thing is to cooperate towards common goals but that’s not true unity. And that’s OK. We don’t need to be enemies even if we’re not unified.
Dude, the American left has been purged twice and is currently being threatened with a third purge. The American right founded this country, designed it in their favor, and then repeatedly killed those who opposed them, from Black Wall St and the Tulsa race massacre to the coup in Wilmington to the Battle of Blair Mountain to literally designing our police forces after slave catchers and the military occupation of The Philippines. The KKK was never purged, they were protected, while the communists were run out of the country and blacklisted by every company and department. There have been laws outlawing leftism but never laws outlawing fascism.
Yes! They rigged the system in their favor starting with the Constitution and never stopping. Are they smarter than the left? That’s irrelevant. What is relevant is that they are more powerful and they are using their power to prevent a change in power.
And again, even when the Republican Party loses, the Democrats that get elected still advance right wing agendas from wars and genocides to racialized mass incarceration and militarized police to international collective punishment and the mass death of children and elderly by deprivation.
The country exists as a right wing concept - a settler colonial genocidal state built by slaves and disposable undesirable immigrants and today the prison slave system produces $11Bn dollars in profits and not a single Democrat has done fuck all about it. Hillary and Bill when Bill was governor lived in the Governor’s Mansion which was staffed by literally black prison house slaves. And they did nothing about it.
The Democrats are right wingers. They’re literally out here building a coalition to stop the left from growing. They’re going to fully participate in the purge of leftists, but make noises like it’s not following proper procedure.
You have no fucking idea what you’re talking about.
Another long winded story, to cover excuses that the Republican voters and Zohran Mamdani have disproven. Of course, the ‘no fucking idea’ bit tacked on the end, as usual.
That’s the issue here. Both Republicans and a progressive (along with a couple others he’s endorsed, am I right?) are disproving the excuses…it’s voting and backing your candidate. Say what you like about me…there’s your evidence.
I mean, it might be too late now, the time to listen was when they were telling us to mind our own business about voting.
Now its peaceful shutdown but they can’t work out that’s their only option either, they’re screaming at each other about that as well.
Your logic is idiotic and your reading comprehension is lacking. Again, the default winner in every American political race is right wing. Republicans don’t prove anything by winning except that the country has always been right wing and was structured to be right wing. If fewer people vote in total, right wingers get more power. If all people vote, yes, there would be a few more left wing victories like Mamdani, but perfect voter turn out would not stop the right wing machine because, again, it’s structurally designed to be right wing directly in the constitution and voting literally can’t fix that.
You really have no idea what you’re talking about and you’re all over this thread trying to act like the world is the way you say it is and everyone else is wrong, and that your position is the most moral and everyone who disagree with you can’t measure up to your moral standards. You’re a tiresome, myopic, blowhard with poor reasoning and an anemic grasp of the actual facts.
Left unity in that country will be achieved when they all unite behind one candidate regardless and not throw the toys from the cot if they don’t get the candidate they wanted.
Reducing leftism to electoralism is a failed endevour, though. The left is largely aligned on the fact that revolution is necessary for systemic change, so at best you’re reducing the scope of leftism to incorrect and minor lines.
Well unfortunately they (apparently) live in a country where their leaders are democratically elected
What, are you saying ‘the left’ over there oppose democracy as well? If so they deserve what they get.
Well, they do anyway really
Capitalist countries do not actually elect candidates democratically, ie based on the will of the majority, just through majority vote for preselected candidates that uphold the will of the capitalist class. Democracy is good, but it requires socialism to begin with.
Mamdani is proving that one wrong. So do the Republicans voters pretty much every election.
No, democracy doesn’t require socialism at all. A decent society might, but democracy can be independent of it. See: Zohran Mamdani
Now, stop whining and vote for your candidate if you get another shot at it
Mamdani is, at most, a social democrat. Reforms under Mamdani, especially in the context of merely a mayoral seat, cannot actually change the economic system to socialism. At most, they can expand welfare, which is not nearly enough to solve the root problems of capitalism. Mamdani proves me correct.
It’s okay to be center right, you don’t have to claim to be left wing just because you happen to find trump deplorable or whatever
Say what you like about me brighteyes, it doesn’t alter the facts.
The Democrats know what their voting base wants, but that isn’t what their corporate donors want. You’re saying that people should be happy about the coyotes (or dingos since you are on an Aussie instance) in their yard since at least they aren’t wolves.
I’m saying voting isn’t something you choose to do, it’s something you do regardless. That’s where one of the selfishnesses is; thinking voting isn’t something something earned. Who you vote for is earned, not the task itself.
That’s why the rest of the world struggles with accepting the whiny excuses and the persistent requests for understanding not offered by Americans and open arms welcome when they want to run from a vote result. Because they didn’t vote.
It’s not the electorate’s fault that the legislators choose not to count non-votes as votes against their approved candidates. And no amount of falling in line, or even grovelling, will change that. What’s more, the fact that an established right was awarded after a fight does not mean that it is what is needed. In fact, it doesn’t even mean that it is what was originally fought for. And lastly, please don’t feel obliged to comment on topics you clearly aren’t interested in examining seriously; unless you are just a troll, of course.
Always the same excuses for not voting. Never the electorates fault, can’t be changed, we outsiders don’t know what we’re talking about.
Meanwhile, Republican voters have been doing voting successfully since forever, disproving every single thing you say.
Stop whining and finding excuses.
If you complaint is that you can’t convince people to vote for your policy goals, maybe you need to change your policy goals or learn how to commnicate them more effectively.
If people have to be convinced to go out and do a duty, they’re not very good people.
LOL - vote super hard even if the choice is between people who want to purge the left and people who collaborate with people who want to purge the left, or even if they have a literal Nazi tattoo from their multiple tours of duty killing brown people as both a US marine and a mercenary (but I repeat myself)
God you people are whiny
The conservatives have shown you how it’s done; vote religiously for who you want. They’ve proved for years it works too.
You owe your country the voting effort, it doesn’t have to earn that. Who you choose is earned but you get off your arse and vote
But keep making excuses.
The conservatives that you speak of? They are Liberals. Liberalism is the philosophy of private property, of the rights of property owners, of the merchant class. And what are Democrats? Oh look, also Liberals. The country isn’t like this because of voting. The country is like this because this is its foundation 70% of Americans are represented by 30% of the Senate. That’s by original design and 250 years later it’s not better. You literally cannot fix the Senate by voting. You certainly can’t fix the Senate by voting for a white petite bourgeois mercenary bigot misogynist.
The power center of the Democrat establishment is openly aligning with Trump administration rhetoric about leftists/socialists being a literal threat to our country, while the Trump administration just sentenced peaceful protestors to 50 years and more for distributing leftists literature.
If you think voting for people is going to fix this, well, at least I can say with confidence that they probably won’t be coming after you for being part of an effective resistance.
Oh also, I love that you think it’s whiny that I don’t think we should vote for a fascist mercenary with an obvious record of violence and lack of empathy for his victims and lack of analysis of the system and his part in it who thinks all he should have to do is briefly apologize and then we should all move on. That’s LITERALLY what the “conservatives” you talk about are doing daily. You think we should vote people who act like “conservatives” just because they have a D next to their name?
We’re watching what happens when you vote this way. Obama and Clinton destroyed Libya and changed the entire DHS/ICE apparatus into what Trump used to deploy them to US cities. Obama did that, he made it possible to deploy to US cities. He also deported 3 million people while Trump has barely hit half that. Oh. And Trump’s deportation czar for both of his terms? Obama appointee. Biden did nothing to stop Trump, created absolutely no barriers for Trump, and essentially only chose to use his discretion to make things better, which he knew would be rolled back as soon as an R took office.
You’re the one who is whining saying “Look at those people! They vote religiously and they keep winning! I want that! Please! You’re all so mean for not voting the way I think you should vote” meanwhile Hillary won the popular vote and we still got here, just like when Bush beat Gore. I’m not whining. I am crystal clear that voting D doesn’t do fuck all, and that the Ds are ramping up to participate in the third Red Scare just like they participated in the previous two Red Scares. I am crystal clear that the Ds support genocide, mass murder, military expansion, police expansion, prison expansion, police militarization, racist mass incarceration, collective punishment of dozens of countries resulting in 800k deaths annually, insider trading, the neutering of unions, and on and on.
That’s the longest whinge I’ve seen about this, thus far.
The problem with all of it is that Republican voters have proven all this whiny shit wrong by voting religiously.
Funny how they achieve it with low numbers, yet there’s a million excuses, including division which you highlight here again with your shit about LiB3RaLs, for the left not being able to achieve it.
Great story but it’s another long winded whine. Get out and vote. Every time.
If you get another shot that is. If not, it’s peaceful shutdown but start fucking doing the right thing. Prove Churchill wrong.
Until then you’re just a pack of whingers. Don’t expect the world to understand, you’re here because you couldn’t get off your arse and vote. Magical excuses around it doesn’t change it and your conservatives getting repeated results over a long time disproves any of this whinging.
Yeah, so you’re still wrong. The right wingers aren’t winning because they vote. They’re winning because the country was created for them to win. It’s the default state of the country. The right wingers don’t have nearly as much to do to win as the left does because the country is structureally organized for their policies to win. Again, 70% of the country is represented by 30% of the Senate. That means 70% of the Senate is voted in by only 30% of the country. You can’t fix that by voting. You’d have to empty out the major cities and distribute Democrat voters into every sparsely populated state of the Union and then you’d have to survive the gerrymandering. It’s literally impossible to achieve. The Senate was built to explicitly to be run by the minority of the country. It always has been, it always will be.
You think you can vote that away? Move to South Dakota.
Which only proves my point; those in the more populated areas who refuse to vote are letting their people down.
The fact remains, hardly better than 65% turn out at any time. Everywhere, Republicans compete not just because of the rural thing but because those in the larger areas don’t turn out.
It’s voting. Not only that, there’s a shitload of excuses for it that aren’t offered to other countries. We really are expected to show an understanding not afforded to other nations. Especially now the politics is being exported to us, people who aren’t involved in US elections.
It doesn’t prove your point at all. You have no idea what you’re talking about. If there was perfect voter turnout in all states, the Senate would still be overwhelmingly right wing. But we’ll never get perfect turnout because our politicians are all actively working to repress turnout. 21 million people in the US don’t have government issued photo IDs, and more than half of states require them to vote. Of all income brackets, almost half of the people making less than $20k/yr don’t vote, which says a lot about voting accessibility, transportation, education, and actual freedom to go to the polls instead of the various obligations we put on the poor.
Voting day is not a holiday in the US. Around the world, Sunday is the most common voting day. For the US it’s a Tuesday. People are forced to choose between stepping out of work and voting, and let me tell you in a country created by right wingers who understand how to maintain power if you think a right wing boss isn’t deliberately making it difficult for their black and brown people employees to vote, including docking pay and terminating them, then you don’t know what’s going on.
Only 7% of eligible voters say no candidate represents their views. Only 15% of eligible voters say they don’t vote because they don’t think it’ll matter.
I know you want to want to feel morally superior and berate people but the reality is that you are wrong
I mean a lot of leftists don’t even believe in electoralism so that’s not going to happen.
Frankly, leftist philosophies and values are so diverse I don’t see true leftist unity happening in any sense. Best thing is to cooperate towards common goals but that’s not true unity. And that’s OK. We don’t need to be enemies even if we’re not unified.
Well they better learn hadn’t they
Other democracies certainly don’t want them
If it was only that simple 🙁
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs]
So how do the conservatives manage it? They haven’t rigged it every time.
They smarter than the American left?
Dude, the American left has been purged twice and is currently being threatened with a third purge. The American right founded this country, designed it in their favor, and then repeatedly killed those who opposed them, from Black Wall St and the Tulsa race massacre to the coup in Wilmington to the Battle of Blair Mountain to literally designing our police forces after slave catchers and the military occupation of The Philippines. The KKK was never purged, they were protected, while the communists were run out of the country and blacklisted by every company and department. There have been laws outlawing leftism but never laws outlawing fascism.
Yes! They rigged the system in their favor starting with the Constitution and never stopping. Are they smarter than the left? That’s irrelevant. What is relevant is that they are more powerful and they are using their power to prevent a change in power.
And again, even when the Republican Party loses, the Democrats that get elected still advance right wing agendas from wars and genocides to racialized mass incarceration and militarized police to international collective punishment and the mass death of children and elderly by deprivation.
The country exists as a right wing concept - a settler colonial genocidal state built by slaves and disposable undesirable immigrants and today the prison slave system produces $11Bn dollars in profits and not a single Democrat has done fuck all about it. Hillary and Bill when Bill was governor lived in the Governor’s Mansion which was staffed by literally black prison house slaves. And they did nothing about it.
The Democrats are right wingers. They’re literally out here building a coalition to stop the left from growing. They’re going to fully participate in the purge of leftists, but make noises like it’s not following proper procedure.
You have no fucking idea what you’re talking about.
Another long winded story, to cover excuses that the Republican voters and Zohran Mamdani have disproven. Of course, the ‘no fucking idea’ bit tacked on the end, as usual.
That’s the issue here. Both Republicans and a progressive (along with a couple others he’s endorsed, am I right?) are disproving the excuses…it’s voting and backing your candidate. Say what you like about me…there’s your evidence.
I mean, it might be too late now, the time to listen was when they were telling us to mind our own business about voting.
Now its peaceful shutdown but they can’t work out that’s their only option either, they’re screaming at each other about that as well.
Your logic is idiotic and your reading comprehension is lacking. Again, the default winner in every American political race is right wing. Republicans don’t prove anything by winning except that the country has always been right wing and was structured to be right wing. If fewer people vote in total, right wingers get more power. If all people vote, yes, there would be a few more left wing victories like Mamdani, but perfect voter turn out would not stop the right wing machine because, again, it’s structurally designed to be right wing directly in the constitution and voting literally can’t fix that.
You really have no idea what you’re talking about and you’re all over this thread trying to act like the world is the way you say it is and everyone else is wrong, and that your position is the most moral and everyone who disagree with you can’t measure up to your moral standards. You’re a tiresome, myopic, blowhard with poor reasoning and an anemic grasp of the actual facts.