What if one group says the land another group is standing on is actually theirs and they want to take it back? For example, what if native Americans invading aliens wanted to evict all non-natives non-aliens?
Edit: the hypothetical seems to be pulling a lot of attention away from the point so I updated it with something hopefully less reactionary.
Because I’m being charitable and if you werent, the concern you were talking about would be just, like ‘but imagine the guy signing the papers to make you homeless and is wearing a feather head dress while he does it!’
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt on being a weird kind of absurd degree of racist or boot licker. I… Guess I can drop that assumption if you like?
I was originally thinking of Israel and the greater Israel project but didn’t want to touch on that topic and somehow I’m still regretting it. We’re getting away now from what the hypothetical was for aka scenarios where people in group X want people in group Y’s land in any sense or scenario no longer specified by anything or any hypotheticals whatsoever.
So I’ve actually known indigenous folks! They generally don’t want me to leave the country and die until they date me.
And until pretty recently, most Palestinians just wanted someplace to live and make a living. They didn’t mind living alongside filthy Zionist rape monsters, new buildings put together a little taller and no new settlers imported. No idea what the general vibe is now.
It’s a random hypothetical, I guess I should have used aliens because everyone is kinda hyper fixating on the example hypothetical and not the actual point of the discussion.
No, I responded to that too.went with your extreme straw manned misunderstanding by pointing out that we have a shitty corporation that already does that. You asked if I owned any children. I think you just want excuses to be scared of others having agency.
It’s more so to point out that some may have a reason to hold onto what they have and the original point of group X taking from group Y would apply to your example as well.
I was originally thinking of Israel and the greater Israel project
Israel is a white supremacist settler-colonialist project that acts like a white supremacist settler-colonialist project… it’s a pretty cut-and-dried situation.
Once again it’s just a hypothetical about any scenario where group X may want group Y’s land regardless of the details. Maybe group X is good maybe they are bad maybe this maybe that, I think we can step away from the specifics because we’re moving away from the original point. Now you’re kinda proving why, it’s because I thought it would guide the conversation into being about the hypothetical more than the original point which is why I said I guess I should have used aliens.
There’s literally no way anyone can live alongside a Zionist. They’ll rape them murder them and post it on twitter, then piss on the corpse and feed it to the dogs they use torape prisoners when they get tired.
I’ve had indigenous roommates, and there was hardly any murder or rape involved at all. Nobody had a dog, and nobody pissed on anyone but themselves, and even that only when they had done lots of drugs.
I think I’d prefer to be evicted by the indigenous ous people William Mulholland fucked out of water for kind of no reason a century ago than blackrock capital. Again.
I mean dependents could also be a grandparent you’re caring for or a disabled sibling and so on and I’m not sure I would say people own their dependents.
Still. Fuck off with your racist bullshit. I’ve had a community before. I’ve cared about people. Some of them were the people you’re fucking talking about. You know they’re just, like, around? I could even be one of them! You would never know! Sorry if that complicates your shittyattempts to justify racism.
I’m not sure I said anything about race, much less racist. I gave a total hypothetical everyone seems to want to focus on more so than the point it was representing, guess I should have used something like aliens for the hypothetical. At any stretch you seem bothered and I hope you’re alright and if you’re not alright I hope you find peace.
I didn’t say I was or was not excited. People have things and generally they try and prevent others who may want those things from taking them. That was kinda the core of the original point. I didn’t think it was going to be such a controversial take.
generally speaking, that is not what landback advocates are calling for. landback means that it is the people who live in concert with the land who will lead its management, and it is the responsibility of others to listen and learn
And even if it were, I’d rather have some tribe own my apartment than blackrock capital. Even the proposed scary misunderstanding isn’t worse than what currently exists, and could be better.
I’m glad you brought this up, because it’s something I want to make a distinguishment from. I do not want to fetishize or otherwise dehumanize indigenous people. I merely want to acknowledge that every culture has something they do better than anyone else. Us Europeans? We built pan-oceanic boats capable of traversing the Atlantic, Pacific, Indian, and Arctic Oceans. That’s absolutely incredible! We are however, dogshit at land management. Hence the constant European desire to colonize more and more of the planet, taking up more and more land to meet the material needs of an aristocratic class that required closely shorn lawns for leisure activities such as polo and croquet.
Meanwhile, I also do not think that indigenous north Americans were perfect. For example, the Cherokee committed a genocide against the Osage, the Inca, Aztek, and Mayans all had theocratic structures that were not great for a large number of people living in their territories, the various peoples of the Americas hunted mega-fauna they encountered to extinction. However, in order for any plan for a hopeful future, we must draw wisdom from many sources. We know this because the current European global hegemony is failing. So we need to start looking for wisdom from other sources. One of the things when we interrogate history is that prior to Europe leveraging military violence to place the global south into a perpetual state of underdevelopment is that the people of the Americas had INCREDIBLE land management strategies that were interwoven with their cultural heritages (food, language, social structures) and agricultural outputs leading to some extremely interesting crops that have become staples worldwide such as corn, potatoes, sunflowers, beans, and tomatoes.
In conclusion: my point is to draw sources from subjugated knowledge
my point is to draw sources from subjugated knowledge
Really not sure what “subjugated knowledge” is supposed to mean.
In any case this is mostly irrelevant. It’s been hundreds or thousands of years, depending on which culture you’re talking about. The environmental conditions have changed, the land has changed, and the cultures are long gone. We have newer methods and better options for land and resource management, and for studying the current actual conditions, and for understanding local environments in the context of the global whole.
the people of the Americas had INCREDIBLE land management strategies that were interwoven with their cultural heritages
They also had a life expectancy of about 50 years and no methods for treating anything like cancer or sepsis or long-term debilitating conditions. My sister is Type 1 diabetic, she’d probably just be dead by 40.
I agree that we should have more respect for those that came before and the work they did that we are still benefitting from today (such as the selective breeding for crops you mentioned), but we can’t move forward by looking backward. The survival strategies of those past cultures don’t scale up to sustain 8 billion people, we need new methods supported by new technologies, better information and system-wide analysis.
Cool idea, also yeah I was just giving a totally random hypothetical. I didn’t want to touch on the greater Israel thing or other real world examples of group X wants group Y’s land.
Man I really should have used a different hypothetical… people are really fixated on it specifically. Also I doubt most nations would be willing to take 10 to 100 million people and how do we pick apart the nationality of individuals who are mixed or don’t have records and so on.
What if one group says the land another group is standing on is actually theirs and they want to take it back? For example, what if
native Americansinvading aliens wanted to evict allnon-nativesnon-aliens?Edit: the hypothetical seems to be pulling a lot of attention away from the point so I updated it with something hopefully less reactionary.
Why do you assume Native Americans would act exactly like white fascists do?
Why do you assume my white owners aren’t going to do this to me? I feel like the indigenous folks wouldn’t be as shitty about it even if they did.
And that’s my “assumption” (according to you) because…?
Because I’m being charitable and if you werent, the concern you were talking about would be just, like ‘but imagine the guy signing the papers to make you homeless and is wearing a feather head dress while he does it!’
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt on being a weird kind of absurd degree of racist or boot licker. I… Guess I can drop that assumption if you like?
Nah… I rather think you’re just full of shit.
It’s totally just a hypothetical. I guess I should have used aliens or something.
Even hypotheticals must be based on grounding assumptions… what was yours based on?
I was originally thinking of Israel and the greater Israel project but didn’t want to touch on that topic and somehow I’m still regretting it. We’re getting away now from what the hypothetical was for aka scenarios where people in group X want people in group Y’s land in any sense or scenario no longer specified by anything or any hypotheticals whatsoever.
So I’ve actually known indigenous folks! They generally don’t want me to leave the country and die until they date me.
And until pretty recently, most Palestinians just wanted someplace to live and make a living. They didn’t mind living alongside filthy Zionist rape monsters, new buildings put together a little taller and no new settlers imported. No idea what the general vibe is now.
It’s a random hypothetical, I guess I should have used aliens because everyone is kinda hyper fixating on the example hypothetical and not the actual point of the discussion.
No, I responded to that too.went with your extreme straw manned misunderstanding by pointing out that we have a shitty corporation that already does that. You asked if I owned any children. I think you just want excuses to be scared of others having agency.
It’s more so to point out that some may have a reason to hold onto what they have and the original point of group X taking from group Y would apply to your example as well.
Israel is a white supremacist settler-colonialist project that acts like a white supremacist settler-colonialist project… it’s a pretty cut-and-dried situation.
Why not? It’s a very easy topic to touch.
Once again it’s just a hypothetical about any scenario where group X may want group Y’s land regardless of the details. Maybe group X is good maybe they are bad maybe this maybe that, I think we can step away from the specifics because we’re moving away from the original point. Now you’re kinda proving why, it’s because I thought it would guide the conversation into being about the hypothetical more than the original point which is why I said I guess I should have used aliens.
Those details are important.
Yes, in specific circumstances from an outside observer Z. From the perspective of X and Y obviously they feel justified regardless of circumstances.
There’s literally no way anyone can live alongside a Zionist. They’ll rape them murder them and post it on twitter, then piss on the corpse and feed it to the dogs they use torape prisoners when they get tired.
I’ve had indigenous roommates, and there was hardly any murder or rape involved at all. Nobody had a dog, and nobody pissed on anyone but themselves, and even that only when they had done lots of drugs.
Now we’re definitely getting away from the general argument I started with (┛◉Д◉)┛彡┻━┻
Worse than every landlord I’ve had since 2010 how?
Fuck it, let em. I don’t own shit.
Do you have kids or any dependents by chance?
I don’t own any children.
I think I’d prefer to be evicted by the indigenous ous people William Mulholland fucked out of water for kind of no reason a century ago than blackrock capital. Again.
I mean dependents could also be a grandparent you’re caring for or a disabled sibling and so on and I’m not sure I would say people own their dependents.
Still. Fuck off with your racist bullshit. I’ve had a community before. I’ve cared about people. Some of them were the people you’re fucking talking about. You know they’re just, like, around? I could even be one of them! You would never know! Sorry if that complicates your shittyattempts to justify racism.
I’m not sure I said anything about race, much less racist. I gave a total hypothetical everyone seems to want to focus on more so than the point it was representing, guess I should have used something like aliens for the hypothetical. At any stretch you seem bothered and I hope you’re alright and if you’re not alright I hope you find peace.
What are you even excited about? What do you really oppose here?
I didn’t say I was or was not excited. People have things and generally they try and prevent others who may want those things from taking them. That was kinda the core of the original point. I didn’t think it was going to be such a controversial take.
generally speaking, that is not what landback advocates are calling for. landback means that it is the people who live in concert with the land who will lead its management, and it is the responsibility of others to listen and learn
And even if it were, I’d rather have some tribe own my apartment than blackrock capital. Even the proposed scary misunderstanding isn’t worse than what currently exists, and could be better.
What does that even mean? It sounds an awful lot like noble savage mythology.
I’m glad you brought this up, because it’s something I want to make a distinguishment from. I do not want to fetishize or otherwise dehumanize indigenous people. I merely want to acknowledge that every culture has something they do better than anyone else. Us Europeans? We built pan-oceanic boats capable of traversing the Atlantic, Pacific, Indian, and Arctic Oceans. That’s absolutely incredible! We are however, dogshit at land management. Hence the constant European desire to colonize more and more of the planet, taking up more and more land to meet the material needs of an aristocratic class that required closely shorn lawns for leisure activities such as polo and croquet.
Meanwhile, I also do not think that indigenous north Americans were perfect. For example, the Cherokee committed a genocide against the Osage, the Inca, Aztek, and Mayans all had theocratic structures that were not great for a large number of people living in their territories, the various peoples of the Americas hunted mega-fauna they encountered to extinction. However, in order for any plan for a hopeful future, we must draw wisdom from many sources. We know this because the current European global hegemony is failing. So we need to start looking for wisdom from other sources. One of the things when we interrogate history is that prior to Europe leveraging military violence to place the global south into a perpetual state of underdevelopment is that the people of the Americas had INCREDIBLE land management strategies that were interwoven with their cultural heritages (food, language, social structures) and agricultural outputs leading to some extremely interesting crops that have become staples worldwide such as corn, potatoes, sunflowers, beans, and tomatoes.
In conclusion: my point is to draw sources from subjugated knowledge
Really not sure what “subjugated knowledge” is supposed to mean.
In any case this is mostly irrelevant. It’s been hundreds or thousands of years, depending on which culture you’re talking about. The environmental conditions have changed, the land has changed, and the cultures are long gone. We have newer methods and better options for land and resource management, and for studying the current actual conditions, and for understanding local environments in the context of the global whole.
They also had a life expectancy of about 50 years and no methods for treating anything like cancer or sepsis or long-term debilitating conditions. My sister is Type 1 diabetic, she’d probably just be dead by 40.
I agree that we should have more respect for those that came before and the work they did that we are still benefitting from today (such as the selective breeding for crops you mentioned), but we can’t move forward by looking backward. The survival strategies of those past cultures don’t scale up to sustain 8 billion people, we need new methods supported by new technologies, better information and system-wide analysis.
https://sociology.institute/sociological-theories-concepts/foucault-power-knowledge-discourse/
Cool idea, also yeah I was just giving a totally random hypothetical. I didn’t want to touch on the greater Israel thing or other real world examples of group X wants group Y’s land.
Honestly? If we had an actual plan in place for where everyone would go i’d play along. I’ve never been to europe but it seems very nice.
I’m not exactly keen on the idea but I can’t deny that it would be pretty fair.
Man I really should have used a different hypothetical… people are really fixated on it specifically. Also I doubt most nations would be willing to take 10 to 100 million people and how do we pick apart the nationality of individuals who are mixed or don’t have records and so on.
Maybe because the US is an apartheid state and we are absolutely the bad guys
And yeah it wouldn’t be very feasible but I can’t argue against it morally.
We’re still moving away from the original point and regret even bothering to give a hypothetical example.