• Akasazh@feddit.nl
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      1 year ago

      It’s not as clever yet, thought, as the demographic is rather small. I was amazed that reddits’ world news the comments were almost uniformly not only anti Hamas but pro Israel. I mean not to pick a side here, and not saying theres not astroturfing here. However there’s more diversity of position, whereas the reddit thread felt almost strangly like everyone was just saying stuff, but not carrying any meaning. Felt like the last scene of body snatchers where even the protagonist turns out to be snatched, in a way.

      The amount of sophistication is lower. There are people holding extreme positions but quite often they self identify and aren’t state sponsored most of the time.

      • VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social
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        1 year ago

        I agree and have noticed the same things. I don’t think Lemmy is big enough to attract the state sponsors yet like Reddit is but it will probably be susceptible to the same issues when it is.

    • Zekas@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Posts like this are it, even. Hurrdurr we’re so much better circlejerk is grossing me out.

      • NightAuthor@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Yeah… but having some pride (warranted or not) is good motivation to help build and maintain things.

    • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
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      Propaganda is an organization disseminating information they want others to believe, whether it be true, false, or the typical tactic, a mix of both.

      You pretty much can’t avoid it on social media, the only question is whether the action is direct from the organizations or grassroots support.

      • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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        1 year ago

        We could avoid it if people would stop acting like fucking clowns and parroting every stupid thing they’ve ever read that happens to align with their views.

    • moistclump@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Honest question. What kind of propaganda are you seeing on Lemmy? Nothing comes to mind.

      I mostly see… Linux stuff. And I am not a computer person. Is that propaganda?

        • Cowbee@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Not defending tankies, but do you think people on hexbear are paid to do so, or just have different political views? If your definition of propaganda is posting about your own specific political views, then pretty much everything is propaganda.

          I could say that I think FOSS and decentralization are good principles, and that can be considered leftist propaganda.

          • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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            1 year ago

            propaganda /prŏp″ə-găn′də/

            noun The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.

            Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause.

            • Cowbee@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Yep, so I’m right, hexbear is just as much propaganda as, say, News, Worldnews, or any other political instance/community.

              Lemmy is very politically active, because to choose lemmy is to reject Reddit. People pick Lemmy over reddit for political reasons, such as preferring FOSS and decentralization, which tend to align far more with leftist beliefs.

              Case closed.

              • NightAuthor@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Wait wait wait wait wait….

                So is it propaganda or not? The second portion of that definition (or is it a whole second definition?) is quite a bit more vague.

                • Cowbee@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  Yes, but not in the same sense of “government sponsored bot propaganda,” and in the same sense as News and Worldnews are propaganda.

                  Hexbear is made up of users that genuinely seem to believe in their ideologies, rather than being sponsored by some state like others have implied.

                • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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                  It is a separate definition. It didn’t copy correctly. I fixed it.

                  Anyway I would say it constitutes propaganda based off the first definition.

              • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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                1 year ago

                And that’s fine (more or less, I wish people would be more responsible about using sources that frame things objectively rather than ones that are biased towards their opinion) on political communities. It’s annoying on communities that aren’t made for politics.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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          I’m so sorry you’ve been exposed to political views different from your own, I hope you’ll be able to recover from that one day.

  • tygerprints@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    I’ve been around since 1959, and back then people were up in arms about the partisan divide in this country and the Vietnam conflict and the oppression of black and other races. Back then, domestic abuse was sort of commonplace, no man could be sent to jail for beating up his kids or his wife. Alcoholism was rampant back then, and drug abuse shot up dramatically. Since then, I’ve seen so much of the same play out over and over. Things have changed somewhat for the better in some ways, but to be honest - there never was a ‘good old time’ when everyone felt happy and equal and safe and protected.

    • Lmaydev@programming.dev
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      In my experience people who talk about the good old days are white and male.

      It was a time when they got their way 100% and everyone else could get fucked.

      • DreamerofDays@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        More likely it was when they were kids and without adult responsibilities, or narrow/whitewashed views of the past(as from stories and shows from before their birth)

        • ReplicantBatty@lemmy.one
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          I look back at my childhood as the ‘good ole days’ mostly because of the no responsibilities thing. The more I learn about what stuff was really going on in the 90’s/2000s, the more I see there was no good ole days, just times when I was insulated from the harsh realities of the world.

          • DreamerofDays@kbin.social
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            I hold similar views(obviously), but I find something comforting in it. Like, rather than living in a ruined paradise lost by us or our parents, we live in a complicated world where we share the work of trying to make something better with our ancestors.

            (Of course, we also have to figure out how to do that, and, in a complicated world, that can be challenging and lead to conflict)

          • tygerprints@kbin.social
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            My childhood in the 60s and 70s was idyllic, I have to admit - growing up on a private reserve with mountains all around and having woods around to play and get lost in. I loved it all - but even then I knew about the conflicts going on and how unhappy most adults seemed.

      • tygerprints@kbin.social
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        That’s about it. I’m white and male and I’m here to tell you, there never was a ‘good old days’ unless you mean a time when white men could get away with raping and killing a young kid like Emmett Till and could butcher their families and get away with it.

    • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      I’ve been around since the 70s and I mostly agree … but on one point I disagree … the ability of humanity to wipe itself out with a nuclear exchange. Back then, even 20, 30 years ago there were a lot level headed leaders who (although we may have disagreed with them) were less radical and would be less likely to consider launching a nuclear weapon for any reason. Back then, we also had a lot of actual war veterans in the public and in government who understood the nature of war … now there are fewer of them around. Most people including those in government now don’t know what war is any more, other than to see it glorified in history books, movies and pop culture.

      So the combination scares me … a society that is complacent to war yet has the weapons to cause world wide destruction if someone disagrees with them.

      • PeleSpirit@lemmy.world
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        It didn’t feel like they were stable and would take care of us though, the nuclear drills sure didn’t help. Also, I know a lot of army vets that weren’t drafted but went to school with the army bill. There are people out there that still know that war sucks. Also, the kids now have school shooting drills, they kind of live with the potential of war and some have seen it. There does seem to be an incredible breakdown with the money in politics, no shame and we’re extremely close to having a dictator after they attempted a coup, I’ll give you that.

      • tygerprints@kbin.social
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        There is only one way that humanity will finally end - and yes, it will be by nuclear war. And it’s not very far off at all. There is no other way that the fate of humanity can go. There is such a lack of human compassion and empathy and such a desire to cause hurt, it’s just a matter of hours. So don’t think it won’t happen. There’s no other possible outcome for us at this point, none whatsoever (unless an asteroid demolishes us first, that is).

    • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      I feel as though there was a “good old days” of the internet. Don’t get me wrong, it was a complete shit show, but it was anonymous, anyone could say anything that they wanted, and there would be few if any consequences. There were ads, but they were generally garbage animated GIFs at worst.

      It wasn’t perfect, but we were free to do what we wanted on the internet, with little to no bearing on our daily lives.

      Now, it’s almost expected that your online activity will be tied to you specifically. In most cases, your legal name is attached to it for everyone to see. If you try to go around without your legal name on everything, then generally you are either severely limited, or outright removed from the platform. Sigh

      • tygerprints@kbin.social
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        That’s true enough. I started working around the time computers were even a thing - back in the 70s and there was no internet, just basic DOS green screens that were very basic. It wasn’t until the mid-90s I even had a computer that had rudimentary internet access - and it was so new, there was only maybe a handful of websites you could find.

        There were no cookies or trackers to watch what you were doing online, but then again, there wasn’t anything much to look at anyway - porn wasn’t even there yet.

        So I feel we definitely have it both better and worse today. To me, the better outweights the negatives - I mean it’s so much nicer today to just be able to search anything and get a million different answers. But that’s also the downfall of everyone being interconnected - being buried in bullshit much of the time.

      • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        and there would be few if any consequences.

        Meted out by human beings who had to read the thread in aggravatingly linear order - so they were more likely to say ‘you were being kind of a butthead’ instead of ‘how dare you call anyone a butthead.’

  • Underwaterbob@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Yeah, and it’s people arguing about cars, Trump, rich people, work, Linux distros, not pooping, and communism.

  • ben@lemmy.zip
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    I’ll have you know that the fake internet points are still here and I will continue to use them to determine my worth in the eyes of my peers.

    • letsgocrazy@lemm.ee
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      That’s the main thing I hate about Lemmyverse is that the zealots and puritans came over too.

      They always think you mean someone else when you say “please stop constantly trying to shoehorn your politics into everything”

      • WiseThat@lemmy.ca
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        My dude, everything is politics. Especially things like “I want a free internet” or “I don’t want to be drowning in ads” which is a huge part of the appeal of Lemmy are both DEEPLY political stances.

        • letsgocrazy@lemm.ee
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          Actually, I’m going to add something to my last reply.

          “not wanting to be drowning in ads” is in no way shape or form a political decision.

          If you mean “because adverts are capitalism” then you’re part of the deeply naive problem.

          It’s perfectly plausible - because it literally has happened - for people to construct a platform under our system (which is also hybrid anywat) that allows for social media to exist without adverts.

          You’re literally the kind of person when I mean when I talk about trying too shoe-horn politics into things when it doesn’t belong.

        • letsgocrazy@lemm.ee
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          I see you can’t understand the difference between zealotry and normal discussion.

          “I don’t want ro drowning in ads” doesn’t have to mean “but trump is Hitler evil Jews did this blah blah everyone who isn’t of my opinion is a murderer”

  • Limit@lemm.ee
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    There is plenty of propaganda on lemmy. You just have to realize you will always be fed propaganda and understand there is propaganda on each side of every issue…

    • ddkman@lemm.ee
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      There is incomparably more propaganda here then anywhere else. On reddit politics are kept out of most subs that are not specifically discussing politics, here everyone uses every opportunity to push whatever agenda they happen to have

    • xFxD@lemmy.world
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      The sheer amount of pro palestinian / pro hamas content around here…

      • SuperSpruce@lemmy.ml
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        That is two very different things. One is a terrorist group, the other are just humans trying to live their lives in safety. Same with Israel. The people are humans trying to live their lives in safety, but Netenyahu is incredibly corrupt and reports show that he is secretly propping up Hamas.

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        You don’t need elephants to smash ants. The Israeli government has gone too far, full stop. I also hope the hostages are returned home safely and a peaceful solution can be found. Calling out atrocities and war crimes perpetrated against the Palestinian people is not pro-hamas propaganda, it’s the first step in accountability.

          • Borkingheck@lemmy.world
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            Its very concentrated here and it is so often lefty nutters. Or certainly my exposure to it is acute on Lemmy compared to my day to day living.

            • soggy_kitty@sopuli.xyz
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              My main problem with it is anyone who has an opinion on how you(or others) live their life. What the fuck happened to modesty

            • socsa@lemmy.ml
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              Sectarian leftist nutters who seem to be extremely overconfident in their amateurish view of philosophy and politics. “The entire world and all of contemporary history is a conspiracy to discredit Lenin” is honestly a pretty shocking view of the world.

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                  For those who can’t be bothered to spend 30 seconds checking if a lemmygrad user is full of shit, this was my response to racism against Koreans (literally calling them dogs), since I know I’d be banned (again) if I was too mean and called a privileged hexbear poster racist directly.

    • Avnar@lemmygrad.ml
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      I havent seen a universal agreed definition of propaganda. It seems like anything advokating for something that that person doesnt agree with is propaganda.

  • 50_centavos@lemmy.world
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    I liked the fake internet points, but it definitely leads to karma whoring. So I’ll do without.

    • BigBlackCockroach@lemmy.world
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      You could create a plug in that states your and everybody’s total karma. Karma is one of the worst ideas on the internet. A tool to enforce conformity and obedience

  • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
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    I like the absence of cumulative fake internet points. I do think it lends a healthier perspective to the community

    • AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee
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      00s internet before corporations colonized it was beautiful. I’m deeply sad that it’s gone but thankful that I got to participate.

      • Troy@lemmy.ca
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        Amazon: 1994

        eBay: 1995

        Match.com: 1995 (same parent company as tinder)

        Hotmail: 1996 (MS owned in 1997)

        Google: 1998

        PayPal: 1998 (eBay owned in 2002)

        If you look at the dot com bubble, there’s a lot of corporate colonization in the 90s. Many of them didn’t survive their stock crashing in 2000 (pets.com is a good example). Some things were not able to be launched until the internet infrastructure supported it properly (YouTube, for example), so yes some things do date to the 00s. But largely, by 1998, the internet was already on its current trajectory.

        The reason Google was so disruptive at the time was that they didn’t charge websites to get listed – it was a business model that relied on actually finding what people were searching for. The fact that this model was disruptive at the time tells you how corporate it was even by then.

  • socsa@lemmy.ml
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    Lemmy is just as much an information warfare platform as anything on Reddit. The Israel/Hamas coverage has confirmed that pretty conclusively.

    • InputZero@lemmy.ml
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      Eh, talking about Isreal/Hamas/Palestine has been a sensitive topic for as long as I can remember. I wouldn’t be surprised if an argument broke out between two Catholics in a church on Sunday if they were talking about it. It’s an extremely devicive issue.

  • Margot Robbie@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Speaking of monetization and propaganda, for your consideration, “Barbie”, now available on Blu-Ray and streaming services everywhere!