Might help also to describe what you think feminism is, since it’s one of those terms that is overloaded.
I once had a physical therapist tell me she wasn’t a feminist because she thought women couldn’t be as physically capable as men when serving as soldiers, and seemed to believe feminism requires treating women exactly like men.
I told her I was a feminist because I believe in equal rights for men and women, an idea she did not seem so opposed to.
I like the Rebecca West quote: “I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.”
This is insane. Why is everyone redefining the feminist movement!? Why so many “this feminism but”? Feminism is the belief in and advocacy of political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.
Do you believe sexes should have equal rights in society? Yes? You’re a feminist. Don’t be afraid of the term. That means that you bought up the anti-feminist propaganda. It’s like going about saying “I’m against the genocide, but not the kind where I hate the jews or support Hamas or terrorist but I believe in not killing children but of course not the kind of belief where I’d attack israeli sold…” Like wtf is this. That’s the definition. Stop tiptoeing. Call it out when you see it. Help your fellow human beings and keep on with your life.
FYI you can’t be a feminist if you pay for the SA and murder of other women.
Yes, in the sense that I believe men and women should have equal rights. I suspect people who say they aren’t feminists have a different definition of it.
To be fair, the word feminist is super outdated, since it has the connotation of being for women because of the “femi”. Well… It kinda was during the feminist movements of the early 1900s, but that in itself was as a fight for equality.
Point is, I’d love a rebrand to something like “Equalist” or something better sounding but with the same connotations.
The term you’re looking for is an egalitarian.
I’ve always thought of women as people. Wild I know. Also I’m transitioning towards being one so y’know, some selfish desire for women’s rights and safety too.
K but once you get there, you’ll tell us if it turns out you’re not actually a person anymore, right?
I believe in equal rights and opportunities for all, be they man, woman, in between or none of the above.
But saying (and perhaps believing) one is a feminist and actually acting like one are often two different pairs of shoes. We all are confronted with so much discrimination, with so much bias, with so much misogyny, it takes active labour to actually behave like a feminist, because no matter how you think about yourself, at some point and to some degree, all that shit we get confronted with every day will rub off on us, and we have to understand that and constantly check ourselves so that it does not influence us in our thought patterns. Constant mental garbage collection, if you want.
That is true for all kinds of discrimination, no matter what it is based on.
Yes, and I don’t really feel the need to clarify or weaken that stance by carving a really specific definition or “but not this or that”.
I’m a feminist, take that as you will.
Yes, as in “women deserve equal rights across the board”
No, as in “feminism is the synonym to and only valid kind of antisexism and every gendered issue should be seen exclusively through women’s struggle”
I’m here for the equality of men and women, and believe that only in cooperation, through consideration of issues on each side, we can efficiently combat sexism.
Feminism should not be “us vs them”. It should be one part of the larger circle that is looking at how we can improve things for everyone - women, men, and nonbinary people.
We should bridge the gap on all sides, so that whatever gender you are, you have equal possibilities in life, career, and everything else, you are safe and can build your life the way you want.
That means no one should be targeted by sexual harassment and exploitation. No one should be denied jobs or have lower salary based on arbitrary characteristics. No one should be forced to choose a binary gender if they’re neither. Kids should not be indoctrinated with traditional gender roles. Etc. etc.
And, honestly, I don’t think many will disagree here. Many of those who “do not support feminism” don’t mean they go against equality - they are rather concerned about a specific form of particularly loud online feminism pretending men are all evil and that there’s no related struggle on men’s end.
It should be one part of the larger circle that is looking at how we can improve things for everyone - women, men, and nonbinary people
Modern feminism does exactly that.
I get that people get hung up on the label, but other demographics’ issues are absolutely part of it. It’s called intersectionality.
The label is important, though, because as long as we call it all feminism, any conversation that does not explicitly target women audience may be maliciously hijacked. I’ve seen this happening in the wild a lot - people arguing that we steal feminism when talking about issues from another perspective.
Also, speaking of intersectionality, isn’t it weird for it to be a subsection of feminism again? Intersectionality commonly includes issues of race, disabilities, transgender individuals, and so on, and as such, men along with nonbinaries who struggle on each of the axis may not get adequate attention and representation under the umbrella of feminism, as again, it’s “about women” (it kinda is).
To me, antisexism should cover feminism, masculism (a term recently hijacked by bad actors, but initially coming from the same place as feminism - equality for all, focus on instances of male discrimination), a movement of nonbinary people.
Intersectionality should go above feminism, and above antisexism for that matter. It is about all struggles of all groups of people, and ultimately stands to cover it all - antisexism, anti-racism, trans inclusion, inclusion of people with disabilities, etc. etc.
I don’t think that’s necessarily malicious. Sounds like those people may have a thing to learn about feminism as well.
It’s not about being a “subsection”. It’s not a competition who’s on top. It’s about recognizing how these issues share a common core and many negative effects, and need to be addressed together rather than competing for attention. That’s exactly what intersectionality addresses.
As far as I’m aware, the inclusive movement that focuses on male issues in a way that regards itself in cooperation rather than competition with feminism (after men’s rights was successfully taken over by the right-wing) labels itself men’s liberation.
Fair enough - but malicious or not, it does cause issues and builds barriers to inclusion.
Talking about subsections is not about competition. It’s about unhealthy arrangement that, again, can easily be used to exclude people. It just doesn’t make sense to divide it this way.
Intersectionality talks about many issues, and one of them, part of it, is sexism. So, putting it under umbrella of feminism is like putting animals under the umbrella of bees.
My experience interacting with men’s liberation is mostly just men going 100% into misandric narrative that men are to blame for anything and everything. As one person underscored it under one such post, “if a woman struggles - it’s society’s fault. If a man struggles - it’s a man’s fault”. There’s no room there for not blaming men for the discrimination they receive.
feminist as in “tear down unjust hierarchies”, and definitely not feminist as in “girlboss yay we need more ladies oppressors”
Exactly, also this “all men are bad and monsters” has to stop. This is not how you get the good men to help you stop and punish the bad men.
But yeah, fuck the patriarchy, women should have just as many rights and freedoms as men do, in theory and in practice.
reversing sexism isn’t a solution to any issue, it’s the irrational hierarchies that are bad, not the fact that it’s not your people on top.
also, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a feminist talking about “all men are monsters”, but I’ve definitely heard antifeminist men claim they do.
I agree, but sadly I have seen posts claiming that all men are monsters and lots of people agreeing online, and not just once or twice.
the funny thing is that now, me, a cis man, sitting in the loo, claiming to be pro feminist, is about to write “those aren’t real feminists”.
I’m laughing while writing this.
don’t take me seriously please.
You have not been on social media during that time period, maybe. It was everywhere which led some men to become antifeminist.
As a CIS male I consider myself a feminist because I recognize that women continue to face systemic challenges that demand more than just abstract ideals of equality. To me, feminism goes beyond egalitarianism. It’s not just about treating everyone the same, it’s about recognizing the different challenges people face and working to change the systems that create and sustain those imbalances.
I was raised by my mom and 3 sisters, and that gave me a front-row seat to the everyday injustices women face. Everything from subtle slights to overt discrimination to being victim of abuse. It wasn’t theory for me, it was lived experience, just one degree removed. I’ve seen the strength and resilience of the women in my life, and I’ve also seen what they’ve had to push through simply because of their gender.
Now, as a father with a daughter, I feel an even deeper responsibility to be part of the shift. I don’t just want her to grow up in a world that pays lip service to “equality”. I want her to live in one where she’s safe, respected, and empowered. That means doing more than being “not sexist.” It means actively pushing back against the structures and behaviors (the patriarchy) that holds women back.
I have zero tolerance for toxic masculinity and so-called “alpha male” attitudes that promote dominance, entitlement, and emotional repression. That culture hurts everyone, but it especially harms women by normalizing control and aggression.
I want my daughter and every woman to see examples of men who are allies, not bystanders. Feminism is a promise: to show up, to speak out (or more often shut up), and to help dismantle barriers so that every person, regardless of gender, can thrive without restriction or fear.
I’m a feminist, opposed to any unjust hierarchy really. One of the things that set me off at a young age was how the US never passed the equal rights amendment.
Also in my home country the women’s liberation movement was tied up with the communist movement which also is why I have a lot of the politics that I do
Yes.
Down with the liars who are talking of freedom and equality for all, while there is an oppressed sex, while there are oppressor classes, while there is private ownership of capital, of shares, while there are the well-fed with their surplus of bread who keep the hungry in bondage. Not freedom for all, not equality for all, but a fight against the oppressors and exploiters!
– Vladimir Lenin, Soviet Power and the Status of Women
Comrades, there is no true social revolution without the liberation of women. May my eyes never see and my feet never take me to a society where half the people are held in silence. I hear the roar of women’s silence. I sense the rumble of their storm and feel the fury of their revolt.
- Thomas Sankara
I am a feminist because I believe men and women should have equal rights. I think a lot of people fell for the propaganda that feminism is about women over men or something. The thing a lot of men fail to realize is that “the patriarchy” hurts them too. A lot of the things you see men complain about like being told to “man up” or not being able to express their feelings without being mocked are 100% a side effect of patriarchy.
I would love to rephrase the word to “Equalist”.
Equal rights for all!Equal rights for all!
That’s what feminism is. That’s my whole point about people falling for the propaganda that it means something else.
The word you’re looking for already exists, it’s egalitarianism lol.
Well.The word problem is solved. Hooray.
Can the world now calm the hell down and just be peaceful with everyone playing nice? :(
“Man up” isn’t always about bottling your feeling like the US internet says. More often it’s “stop complaining and just do it”. And someone has to do “it”. And it often leads to growth.
The internet often distorts things.
As for the topic, I am a feminist. The first and second wave feminism, that is. The equality ones. Not the pink haired screaming “all men are evil and should pay” third wave. Everybody screaming “patriarchy” while sitting on their bed, not even looking further then that. Looking at everything black and white.
Actually, I’m kinder to women then men…
“Man up” isn’t always about bottling your feeling like the US internet says. More often it’s “stop complaining and just do it”. And someone has to do “it”. And it often leads to growth.
I’m sure telling people who are hesitant to open up about their feelings and want to express them more to “stop complaining and just do it” will definitely make them open up about their feelings. 🙄 Way to miss the point entirely.
Not the pink haired screaming “all men are evil and should pay”
I don’t think that caricature helps promote gender equality.
As for the topic, I am a feminist. The first and second wave feminism, that is. The equality ones. Not the pink haired screaming “all men are evil and should pay” third wave.
Actually, I’m kinder to women then men…
I can say I was long ago when it was roughly “women’s rights should be equivalent to men’s rights” in terms of personal, work, social values and features.
These days and especially in the last 10 I don’t think the umbrella of feminism is large enough to encompass all of the discrimination I have seen through my time existing.
The long and the short of it is people’s rights should be similar when applicable, the same when possible.
I am a feminist.
Feminism means all genders should be treated equal, but that does not mean men should also get paid menstrual leaves at their job. Equal rights, yes. Everyone should be treated fairly.
Defining it as paid menstrual leave is kind of the problem. Hear me out.
Women should be able to take paid leaves from work to deal with menstrual problems, but it shouldn’t stop there. All people should be able to take leave from work when they need it.
So, if it is redefined as paid leave, then it equalizes the field.
I think the “when they need it” part is where the feminism becomes relevant - there is a history of women (and men) being denied leave when they need it for sexist / patriarchal reasons (e.g. men are generally not given paternity leave, women might not be allowed to take leave due to menstruation).
The scope of acceptable reasons to take leave is what is debated and where feminism has pushed for paid leave for reasons previously denied to both men and women.
I get you. But say, a company has a policy that we give employees 2 paid leaves per month, for example, a woman can take those 2 paid leaves for the same reasons as the men do, but they would also need a day more of paid leaves to deal with the menstrual pain/stress. If that extra day is not defined as “menstrual leaves” men would argue that why are women getting more leaves, and hence the feminism thing will be broken as both are not treated fairly.
Same in the case of pregnancy. Companies give 2 months of paid leaves for that.
Or maybe the right thing to do is, just say, if you’re pregnant, you get paid time off, if you’re having periods you get paid time off. Do not include gender in it.
Idk man.
And that’s why the amount of paid leave should not be limited by time but by reason. If you can’t work because you’re pregnant or sick or whatever, you get paid leave until you are better. And the employer or coworkers don’t even need to know why you can’t work, that’s for a doctor to decide. And anyone saying it’s not fair if they have to work more because they are not sick as often is obviously just selfish and not interested in equality
I get what you’re saying, but if a woman is given more benefits than a man, businesses are disincentivized to hire women.
Unless the government subsidizes their wages or reduces tax burdens for companies that have more diverse hiring
That’s what we do in my country. If you hire only men you generally qualify for fewer government programs. In some cases you cant bid on the job if you don’t have sufficient representation for specific groups.
But I think the idea is that men should get the same lenience, i.e. just-feeling-wrecked-leave rather than menstrual-leave. The difference in having a baby should be that one needs medical leave too, in my mind.
I kind of agree on this. Women cannot expect equal pay for less work.
But that’s not what they are expecting. They expect to not have to work if they are sick. And that should apply to anyone, shouldn’t it? Which leaves the question, who has to care for the sick? Historically that would be the family, but nowerdays with the focus on individualism, either everyone has to care (e.g. by some health care system) or we just accept that sick people are not cared for in our society and hope that we don’t get sick. I know I prefer the first solution
The problem is grey area in what sick means when it comes to periods. Is low mood sick? Is PMS sick? Is pain during periods sick? Is being irritable sick? This makes it seem like an excuse at time.
Men should also be then allowed to take leaves when they feel like shit or something. Point is equal pay for equal work. Women can’t expect to be CEOs and stuff when they don’t put in equal work. There are women who get to high posts inspite of all these problems and I respect that. I guess it is more of an individual to individual thing about who puts in efforts, who is truthful, etc.
I agree that there is a big grey area on what is too sick to work, but with my proposal at least we are a big step further and instead of the employer deciding for you (who wants you to work for them) or you deciding on your own (who might not want to come to work after a night partying), there is now an (hopefully) independant entity, the doctor who decides.
But I have to admit that of course the doctor can only listen to the patient and decide based on that, because there is just no way to measure pain/sickness objectively. So in the end we have to trust people to decide on their own if they are sick.
With your proposed solution of x sick days, I guess that many people that are actually too sick for work have to work just because they don’t have enough days, while some that don’t get sick might use their sick days anyway, because they have them. And even with my solution, realistically there will be a lot of people going to work when they should rest, while there will also be people that use the system to rest after celebrating. I don’t think a perfectly fair system is possible, but I prefer the system where people are not exploited and supressed.
Coming back to your argument on periods, like I said, there is no way to measure someones pain besides asking them, and ignoring their answer is not the solution, so yes women should be able to take leaves for period pain. And yes, men should be able to take leaves if they feel like crap, even if that might mean taking of a day off that they might have been able to work. In the end the grey area is not perfectly convertable to able to work/not able to work.
I absolutely guarantee you one of those things is not like the others. Period pain can be truly debilitating, especially for a person with endometriosis. It is totally worth time off.
Also, I find your insinuation that women take time off for ‘low mood’ and ‘being irritable’ frequently—as opposed to men—rather sexist and offensive, not to mention not reflective of reality.
However, I do like how you inadvertently stumbled into the idea that we should all have more sick days and mental health should be included in the definition of ‘health’. Taking time off for a mental ‘breather’ should be normalized in our society. I also think higher-mental-stress jobs like 911 dispatcher should get more mental health off-time.
If it is a diagnosed disease, then time off is no brainer. However, then they should not expect any promotions over other people without the disease (assuming equal work/hour).
Also, I find your insinuation that women take time off for ‘low mood’ and ‘being irritable’ frequently—as opposed to men—rather sexist and offensive, not to mention not reflective of reality.
I don’t have data, it is based on my observations of people and opinions. I’d be happy to be proved wrong.
inadvertently stumbled into the idea
Because anyone other than “feminists” does not have a brain to come up with ideas intentionally. This statement is the perfect example why feminism is being promoted in an extremely stupid way. You attack the very people who are willing to engage in constructive discussions by calling them stupid. Then, you are surprised when they fight back and call them sexist pigs. No wonder men hate feminism as a movement.
then they should not expect any promotions over other people without the disease (assuming equal work/hour).
Are you saying if they work the same hours, but take off more of their sick days because of a disease, they shouldn’t get a promotion?
No, I am assuming that they do the same amount of work per hour
And where in my previous post did I call you stupid?
You speak of mental health days in a derogatory way, as if you find the very idea that people should take care of their mental as well as physical health offensive, for reasons I don’t understand.
I’m saying that your mocking statement about taking days off for such things should in fact be something we do, and something we should find acceptable to do.
If someone is sick, and gets certified as such by a licenced medical doctor, they get leave. Why is this so complicated?
A clear certificate, then yes.
