So, how should we call it when people are “not liberated” from the regime that doesn’t let people escape the country and that kidnaps people off the streets and sends them to die in the meatgrinder?
I always thought that the word for that is liberated, but I’d gladly learn a better one :)
Well, why would I blame Russia for Zelensky’s actions?
It’s his regime that turned country into a prison that doesn’t let people out and kidnaps them off the street to send them to die.
Russia is liberating people from that. I just hope that they will be able to liberate the whole Ukraine instead of just 4 regions (even if it’s probably unrealistic and not their goal…).
Last I checked Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. Putin did that. Then Putin began a major offensive in 2022, causing an existential crisis for Ukraine. If Russia really cared about “saving” they would leave, and the “kidnapping” wouldnstop. None of it started until Russia invaded. This “kidnapping” you speak of is Ukraine enforcing it’s conscription laws, laws that have been expanded because of Putin’s brutal actions. Russia does the same thing to it’s people. And try skipping the draft in South Korea or Israel. They don’t take kindly to that either.
Tell me, how many Ukrainians have you spoken to since the Russia restarted it’s brutal war of aggression in 2022? My guess is zero.
If Russia really cared about “saving” they would leave, and the “kidnapping” wouldnstop.
They liberate the people from Zelensky’s regime, people that decided they don’t want to be under his rule.
This “kidnapping” you speak of is Ukraine enforcing it’s conscription laws
And Russia is liberatong people from being kidnapped. From regime of people like you, who think that kidnapping and killing people can be justified.
Tell me, how many Ukrainians have you spoken to since the Russia restarted it’s brutal war of aggression in 2022? My guess is zero.
I am Ukrainian. My family is Ukrainian. More than half of my friends are Ukrainian. Some of my colleagues are Ukrainian. Some of them are living good lives, because like me, they either legally or illegally managed to leave Ukraine. Some of them are still in Zelensky’s prison and live in fear of being kidnapped and killed. I say that Russia liberates Ukraine because I know what happens there and I have some basic empathy towards other people, in contrast to fascist.worlders. Zelensky blesses TCC animals to kidnap people off the street. Russia sends drones and rockets into TCC buildings. It’s pretty obvious who is liberating people and who abuses them.
By that logic every country should invade every other country to “save” the population that didn’t vote for the party currently in power. You truly are braindead. Your thinking is not based in reality. I hope the russians “liberate” you.
If Russia is so good to Ukrainians then why aren’t you there? I’m starting to think you’re a liar. Just kidding I’ve known you were a liar from the start. every Ukrainian me and my wife know, and there are dozens, both in the country still and outside, know that Russian “liberation” is a death sentence.
You’re a liar and a charlatan. Have the day you deserve
By that logic every country should invade every other country to “save” the population that didn’t vote for the party currently in power.
No need, only the countries where the power is grabbed by people who kidnap and terrorize the population please :)
If Russia is so good to Ukrainians then why aren’t you there?
I am from a territory that is not yet liberated by Russia. Obviously I cannot return there anytime soon, because if I do I will be trapped in Zelensky’s prison like everybody else. But even if it gets librrated, I currently have more economic opportunities elsewhere, so until retirement I will probably at most visit “there” (but again only if the territory gets liberated).
know that Russian “liberation” is a death sentence.
Ask them what happens when someone gets kidnapped by TCC ;)
You know, I of course also have a few “friends” who support Zelensky’s regime, also both in and outside of Ukraine.
You know how they are different from the rest?
They are also fascists, like you, and also like you they do not need to be afraid of getting kidnapped and meatgrinded (either because they are not Ukrainians, are rich, or also escaped Ukraine). So, their logic is also like yours, somethig like “Russian orcs are invaders and we should fight them, kidnapping is justified. Me? No no, here is a list of reasons I cannot fight, even tho I want to… But other people, they should fight and die for Ukrainian glory!!”
Even if everything you say is true, which it isn’t, none of that justifies Russia invading a sovereign nation in 2014. Long before zelensky.
As for your claim that you’re from a region that hasn’t been stolen by Russia that is a lame and bad excuse. Go to Poland, walk into Belarus, tell them you want to help with the" liberation" of your homeland and they’ll put you on the first train to Russia. That’s how I know you’re a liar. You can make it to Russia easily.
You’re a braindead troglodyte and you are not Ukrainian.
No one was preventing anyone from leaving the country…they just don’t get to take the land with them. That’s not how it works. The word for that is “stealing”.
Conscription has always violated human rights but there are certainly better words like “conquer”. And let’s not pretend Russia isn’t also conscripting men (though certainly not those in their 50s).
Well, that’s true, at least we can agree on that :)
What happens in Ukraine isn’t even “conscription” tho, it’s literally just masked men hunting other men on the streets and kidnapping them into vans (grab first ask questions later). Just look up “busification” (word of the year 2024 according to some Ukrainian dictionary organization btw) if you want to see more.
there are certainly better words like “conquer”
Why would you think that “conquer” is more appropriate than “liberation” in this context? When hostages are freed, and can now do whatever they want (instead of just being hostages), do you say they were conquered or maybe liberated? Same situation here.
Well TIL. But to call it liberation isn’t correct. America is also kidnapping people from their homes and work places but to say of another country was to invade and take a territory wouldn’t be the same as liberation. Liberation has a higher standard where the people of the land receive sovereignty and a self-determined government.
America is also kidnapping people from their homes and work places
Are you talking about ICE?
Well, I think it’s a question of scale.
If somebody invaded USA to liberate “illegals” (so, after taking power, “illegals” would have the same rights as “legals”), I would also call that a liberation, but only for that group of people. I wouldn’t say that USA as a whole got liberated though, because obviously this is just a small group that received additional liberties.
It’s different in case of Ukraine. Almost every single family (apart from the rich ones, obviously) is a potential subject to kidnapping (and killing/wounding) of their men. So here it’s liberating everyone, therefore I don’t think there is more appropriate word than liberation.
Maybe there’s a better example but the point remains, liberating a people comes with self-determination. It’s not a matter of how little rights the people had before the military action.
Self-determination is the right of a people to choose their own political status and governance, often associated with the desire for independence or autonomy. It is a key principle in international law, emphasizing that people should be governed only with their consent.
Well, that also fits.
People from Donbass in particular very much don’t want to be governed by Zelensky (or Ukraine in general).
The rest of the people, as you can imagine (and see from all the busification videos) also don’t like being governed by the regime that literally forbids them to leave and kidnaps and kills. People under Zelensky’s regime cannot vote and choose their representatives.
Of course, the perfect scenario for people would be to have independence both from Zelensky’s regime and Russia (as was the case initially with DPR & LPR), thus having full self-determination, but unfortunately that card is not on the table (if it was, it would be the best option imaginable). So there are just two choices. And obviously, the one with Russia gives people more self-determination than the other one.
That’s already after the initial crime has been committed…and is a direct result of it.
It also intentionally mischaracterized what that article is talking about. Russia isn’t “liberating” the people in those regions. They are stealing that land, and calling it “liberation”.
Russia isn’t “liberating” the people in those regions. They are stealing that land, and calling it “liberation”.
But it is. And I literally just told you why - the people on the liberated territories gain more freedoms (or liberties, as in liberated ;) ), freedom of movement, freedom of leaving the country, freedom of not being kidnapped off the street, freedom to vote for political parties parties, freedom to speak whatever language they want, etc. etc. etc.
This is literally the dictionary definition of word " liberation" :)
Also, they are not stealing land, what are you talking about? The land / real estate in the liberated territories still belongs to the people that live there, nothing changed (well, except those people having rights and liberties insyead of being Zelensky’s cannon fodder).
Russia also drafts civilians. Hundreds of thousands of them, so far. So, what you are saying, is pure bullshit. Russia doesn’t give a fuck how many civilians die for Putin’s war.
If they did care, it would be the easiest thing in the world to solve. Just withdraw their troops and go home. Everyone lives. The ongoing death toll has always been up to them. They chose this.
Russia also drafts civilians. Hundreds of thousands of them, so far.
Ah, silly me, look like I felt victim to tankie propaganda, I thought in Russia people join the army because there are monetary incentives to do so! Can you now please share a page similar to https://uadraftmuseum.ch/ documenting how evil Russian empire kidnaps people off the streets, beats and busifies them, so that I can finally break free from the propaganda? Thank you very much!
If you want to complain about how one side is doing something bad…it helps if the side you’re defending isn’t also doing the same thing. And for the record, sarcasm is really only effective if the point you’re trying to make, is valid. Bullshitting your way through an argument, is just intellectually dishonest.
First link - about detention for protesting. Thanks for proving my point about people in Russia having more freedoms and at least some chance to protest. In Ukraine you would not even think about, as you would be kidnapped and sent to the meatgrinder immediately.
Second link also further proves my point - “conscripts cannot legally be deployed to participate in military operations in Ukraine”, so in other words you are not sent to die in the meatgrinder. The following example of conscripts actually getting into war is about Ukraine invading (!!) Kursk oblast, where they murdered soldiers and civilians. The stories about the actual kidnappings are just that - stories. Perhaps if you look really hard you would be able to find 1 or 2 videos of that happening in Russia, where individual officers overstep their authority, in Ukraine its systematic, and well the only way to keep the war going.
So again, Russia is liberating people imprisoned by Zelensky’s regime.
So, how should we call it when people are “not liberated” from the regime that doesn’t let people escape the country and that kidnaps people off the streets and sends them to die in the meatgrinder?
I always thought that the word for that is liberated, but I’d gladly learn a better one :)
It’s Russia’s fault that anybody is dying. You blame Russia. If Russia leaves then there’s no meat grinder. Simple as.
Well, why would I blame Russia for Zelensky’s actions?
It’s his regime that turned country into a prison that doesn’t let people out and kidnaps them off the street to send them to die.
Russia is liberating people from that. I just hope that they will be able to liberate the whole Ukraine instead of just 4 regions (even if it’s probably unrealistic and not their goal…).
Last I checked Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. Putin did that. Then Putin began a major offensive in 2022, causing an existential crisis for Ukraine. If Russia really cared about “saving” they would leave, and the “kidnapping” wouldnstop. None of it started until Russia invaded. This “kidnapping” you speak of is Ukraine enforcing it’s conscription laws, laws that have been expanded because of Putin’s brutal actions. Russia does the same thing to it’s people. And try skipping the draft in South Korea or Israel. They don’t take kindly to that either.
Tell me, how many Ukrainians have you spoken to since the Russia restarted it’s brutal war of aggression in 2022? My guess is zero.
They liberate the people from Zelensky’s regime, people that decided they don’t want to be under his rule.
And Russia is liberatong people from being kidnapped. From regime of people like you, who think that kidnapping and killing people can be justified.
I am Ukrainian. My family is Ukrainian. More than half of my friends are Ukrainian. Some of my colleagues are Ukrainian. Some of them are living good lives, because like me, they either legally or illegally managed to leave Ukraine. Some of them are still in Zelensky’s prison and live in fear of being kidnapped and killed. I say that Russia liberates Ukraine because I know what happens there and I have some basic empathy towards other people, in contrast to fascist.worlders. Zelensky blesses TCC animals to kidnap people off the street. Russia sends drones and rockets into TCC buildings. It’s pretty obvious who is liberating people and who abuses them.
By that logic every country should invade every other country to “save” the population that didn’t vote for the party currently in power. You truly are braindead. Your thinking is not based in reality. I hope the russians “liberate” you.
If Russia is so good to Ukrainians then why aren’t you there? I’m starting to think you’re a liar. Just kidding I’ve known you were a liar from the start. every Ukrainian me and my wife know, and there are dozens, both in the country still and outside, know that Russian “liberation” is a death sentence.
You’re a liar and a charlatan. Have the day you deserve
No need, only the countries where the power is grabbed by people who kidnap and terrorize the population please :)
I am from a territory that is not yet liberated by Russia. Obviously I cannot return there anytime soon, because if I do I will be trapped in Zelensky’s prison like everybody else. But even if it gets librrated, I currently have more economic opportunities elsewhere, so until retirement I will probably at most visit “there” (but again only if the territory gets liberated).
Ask them what happens when someone gets kidnapped by TCC ;)
You know, I of course also have a few “friends” who support Zelensky’s regime, also both in and outside of Ukraine. You know how they are different from the rest? They are also fascists, like you, and also like you they do not need to be afraid of getting kidnapped and meatgrinded (either because they are not Ukrainians, are rich, or also escaped Ukraine). So, their logic is also like yours, somethig like “Russian orcs are invaders and we should fight them, kidnapping is justified. Me? No no, here is a list of reasons I cannot fight, even tho I want to… But other people, they should fight and die for Ukrainian glory!!”
Even if everything you say is true, which it isn’t, none of that justifies Russia invading a sovereign nation in 2014. Long before zelensky.
As for your claim that you’re from a region that hasn’t been stolen by Russia that is a lame and bad excuse. Go to Poland, walk into Belarus, tell them you want to help with the" liberation" of your homeland and they’ll put you on the first train to Russia. That’s how I know you’re a liar. You can make it to Russia easily.
You’re a braindead troglodyte and you are not Ukrainian.
Why would I need to go there?
Ah ok thx, I’m sure you know better than I do :)
No one was preventing anyone from leaving the country…they just don’t get to take the land with them. That’s not how it works. The word for that is “stealing”.
You probably misunderstood what I meant :)
By not allowing people to escape I meant this: https://theconversation.com/why-banning-men-from-leaving-ukraine-violates-their-human-rights-178411
By kidnapping people off the streets I meant this (and well, hundreds of other sources): https://uadraftmuseum.ch/
So let me ask you once again, when someone frees people from that, what is a more appropriate word than liberation? :)
Conscription has always violated human rights but there are certainly better words like “conquer”. And let’s not pretend Russia isn’t also conscripting men (though certainly not those in their 50s).
Well, that’s true, at least we can agree on that :)
What happens in Ukraine isn’t even “conscription” tho, it’s literally just masked men hunting other men on the streets and kidnapping them into vans (grab first ask questions later). Just look up “busification” (word of the year 2024 according to some Ukrainian dictionary organization btw) if you want to see more.
Why would you think that “conquer” is more appropriate than “liberation” in this context? When hostages are freed, and can now do whatever they want (instead of just being hostages), do you say they were conquered or maybe liberated? Same situation here.
Well TIL. But to call it liberation isn’t correct. America is also kidnapping people from their homes and work places but to say of another country was to invade and take a territory wouldn’t be the same as liberation. Liberation has a higher standard where the people of the land receive sovereignty and a self-determined government.
Are you talking about ICE?
Well, I think it’s a question of scale.
If somebody invaded USA to liberate “illegals” (so, after taking power, “illegals” would have the same rights as “legals”), I would also call that a liberation, but only for that group of people. I wouldn’t say that USA as a whole got liberated though, because obviously this is just a small group that received additional liberties.
It’s different in case of Ukraine. Almost every single family (apart from the rich ones, obviously) is a potential subject to kidnapping (and killing/wounding) of their men. So here it’s liberating everyone, therefore I don’t think there is more appropriate word than liberation.
Maybe there’s a better example but the point remains, liberating a people comes with self-determination. It’s not a matter of how little rights the people had before the military action.
Well, that also fits.
People from Donbass in particular very much don’t want to be governed by Zelensky (or Ukraine in general).
The rest of the people, as you can imagine (and see from all the busification videos) also don’t like being governed by the regime that literally forbids them to leave and kidnaps and kills. People under Zelensky’s regime cannot vote and choose their representatives.
Of course, the perfect scenario for people would be to have independence both from Zelensky’s regime and Russia (as was the case initially with DPR & LPR), thus having full self-determination, but unfortunately that card is not on the table (if it was, it would be the best option imaginable). So there are just two choices. And obviously, the one with Russia gives people more self-determination than the other one.
That’s already after the initial crime has been committed…and is a direct result of it.
It also intentionally mischaracterized what that article is talking about. Russia isn’t “liberating” the people in those regions. They are stealing that land, and calling it “liberation”.
But it is. And I literally just told you why - the people on the liberated territories gain more freedoms (or liberties, as in liberated ;) ), freedom of movement, freedom of leaving the country, freedom of not being kidnapped off the street, freedom to vote for political parties parties, freedom to speak whatever language they want, etc. etc. etc.
This is literally the dictionary definition of word " liberation" :)
Also, they are not stealing land, what are you talking about? The land / real estate in the liberated territories still belongs to the people that live there, nothing changed (well, except those people having rights and liberties insyead of being Zelensky’s cannon fodder).
Russia also drafts civilians. Hundreds of thousands of them, so far. So, what you are saying, is pure bullshit. Russia doesn’t give a fuck how many civilians die for Putin’s war.
If they did care, it would be the easiest thing in the world to solve. Just withdraw their troops and go home. Everyone lives. The ongoing death toll has always been up to them. They chose this.
Ah, silly me, look like I felt victim to tankie propaganda, I thought in Russia people join the army because there are monetary incentives to do so! Can you now please share a page similar to https://uadraftmuseum.ch/ documenting how evil Russian empire kidnaps people off the streets, beats and busifies them, so that I can finally break free from the propaganda? Thank you very much!
You mean, something like this? Or maybe this?
If you want to complain about how one side is doing something bad…it helps if the side you’re defending isn’t also doing the same thing. And for the record, sarcasm is really only effective if the point you’re trying to make, is valid. Bullshitting your way through an argument, is just intellectually dishonest.
First link - about detention for protesting. Thanks for proving my point about people in Russia having more freedoms and at least some chance to protest. In Ukraine you would not even think about, as you would be kidnapped and sent to the meatgrinder immediately.
Second link also further proves my point - “conscripts cannot legally be deployed to participate in military operations in Ukraine”, so in other words you are not sent to die in the meatgrinder. The following example of conscripts actually getting into war is about Ukraine invading (!!) Kursk oblast, where they murdered soldiers and civilians. The stories about the actual kidnappings are just that - stories. Perhaps if you look really hard you would be able to find 1 or 2 videos of that happening in Russia, where individual officers overstep their authority, in Ukraine its systematic, and well the only way to keep the war going.
So again, Russia is liberating people imprisoned by Zelensky’s regime.