Has my research on this been just been somehow skewed over the past months or does it really seem like Western media is suddenly turning on Ukraine?
Until like 1-2 weeks ago it was really difficult to find anything overly critical about Ukraine and now it seems as of there’s a sudden change in coverage.
Ukraine: we need tanks/armor!
West: hmm, no that would be too provocative. months later, as Russia digs trenches and lays mines
West: ok, ok, here are some tanks
Ukraine: Great, can we get better ammunition?
West: What?! No, yeesh. months of mines and trenches later
West: Ok here are cluster munitions
Ukraine: thank you. None of this really works without air support though so…
West: What is your deal? mine, mine, mine, trench trench
West: Ok maybe some F16s.
West: yo, what’s taking so long?
Ukraine: I’m sorry? I can’t hear you over ALL THE FUCKING MINES
Ukraine cannot win here. Russia has the world’s most devious and cruel combat engineers laying in miles and miles of entrenched defence fortifications. Backed by Russia’s world leading artillery battalions, there is no way Ukraine can push back Russia without battlefield nukes.
Russia is already laying in massive quantities of entrenched long range radar, antiaircraft batteries and missiles. US cannot acquire air power over that region any longer. If you have played a realistic war flightsim like Falcon 5.0, you will know air power cannot prevail against Russia’s AA tech.
The F-35 has been operating over Syria for years against those supposedly infallible Russian AA defenses. So far the only thing that’s been able to hit them is a bird.
“Bully punches kid and steals $50, kid only manages to get back $30, is the kid a fucking loser?” This is what the sentiment usually feels like, even if it’s not what the reporting is about, please be aware of this.
Let’s leave the rest of your narrative alone for second. Kid fights back and loses use of several fingers, loses several teeth, and is now deaf in one ear but has managed to get back $0.10
How is this math accurate?
Only got back $.10? Ukraine regained 33% or so of their captured land (or 50%-52% regained of the land lost since the second invasion). So, it would be around $16 or $17 (or $25-26 for the second invasion).
So the bully now has now attacked and lost use of several fingers, lost several teeth, and is now deaf in one ear … Same goes for his friend he conscripted to help. Plus his work told him he is getting a pay cut (sanctions)
But I don’t think could deprogram your propagandized brain.
Before 2022, Russia occupied 42,000 km2 (16,000 sq mi) of Ukrainian territory (Crimea, and parts of Donetsk and Luhansk), and occupied an additional 119,000 km2 (46,000 sq mi) after its full-scale invasion by March 2022, a total of 161,000 km2 (62,000 sq mi) or almost 27% of Ukraine’s territory.[8] By 11 November, the Institute for the Study of War calculated that Ukrainian forces had liberated an area of 74,443 km2 (28,743 sq mi) from Russian occupation,[9] leaving Russia with control of about 18% of Ukraine’s territory.
Oh, I see, you’re talking about literally ever single place that Russia walked through at some point in the last 9 years and calling all of that not only “occupied” but also “successfully regained through counteroffensive”. A truly expansive definition.
The rest of the world is instead looking at this through the lens of realism. Through this lens, territory is constantly in a state of flux and much territory cannot actually be held successfully. Russia has expressed its intent quite clearly and it is not the total annexation of Ukraine, so assuming the goal of each deployment is annexation leads to terribly faulty analysis. Instead, we look at how the movement of troops through areas that are not holdable are nevertheless strategically valuable in establishing the perimeter that is holdable. This is where the much vaunted “spring/summer counter-offensive” enters the calculation.
Prior to this counter-offensive, Ukraine was deemed to have lost it’s 2nd full army and was requesting a replenishment from the West in order to keep fighting. This is when all the Western liberals turned into tankies and kept crowing about the awesome tanks that were being sent to Ukraine for the counter-offensive. Since the launch of the counter-offensive, Ukraine has recovered about 10mi, a tiny tiny fraction of the territory. Worse, they have lost a massive portion of their now 3rd army built on these shipments from the West.
You don’t have to believe the BBC, but it certainly runs entirely counter to whatever propagandist BS that wikipedia article reads as.
Lmao so what would you describe the massive losses Russia has taken in terms of lives, machinery, and munitions, as well as the open revolt Wagner engaged in? If Ukraine is losing fingers, teeth, and hearing, I imagine Russia has full on lost a limb and has bleeding to stabilize.
That rebellion was probably part of Put-daddy’s plan tho, right?
The US is sending more aid per year than Russia’s entirely military budget and Russia hasn’t even gotten through it’s old weapon systems yet.
But that’s also besides the point. Let’s assume you’re right and Russia has lost more than Ukraine. How does that jive with Ukraine’s inability to make meaningful progress in their offensive? They’ve reclaimed something like .2% of their lost territory, which is easily within the margins of the ebb and flow of conflict.
So Putin, who is openly saying that the offensive isn’t going as planned, is OK sending tens of thousands of soldiers into the grinder agaisnt better equipment, just to go through surplus? He’s choosing to have thousands of Russians killed while sitting on equipment that could keep them safe?
What a guy. Noble cause he’s after, de-nazi-fying a sovereign nation, while also getting his citizens massacred in tank columns and shoddy equipment while he keeps the good stuff at home.
Unless that isn’t what he’s doing? But you did just say they were using old stuff on purpose. You wouldn’t be wrong, would you?
Sovereign as is the highest authority in the territory. The US is a sovereign nation. European countries are sovereign. In fact, most of the countries on the planet can be described as sovereign nations…
“Sovereign” does nothing to describe the type of governance the country has? Or do you have some wild insight about how sovereign actually means it’s an installed dictatorship?
Ah yes so its the kids fault, proper authoritarian mindset (let’s leave the rest of your narrative alone, fuck you I’m right cause I have more power) technically true but I thought you guys were “anti imperialist”
Lol. I don’t need to deal with your nonsensical vomit. If you can’t even formulate coherent thoughts after looking at real numbers and flying into a foaming rage I don’t think I could deprogram your propagandized brain.
All that describes is a lease and buy-back scheme for a state desperate for cash (understandably). It states nothing about “the west privatising Ukraine”. No statement of pressure, no statement about western influence in the decision.
Mostly slow due to mines and the dam. Recently, Ukraine has made good progress in Crimea and some surprise attacks on RF assets. It will just take some time is all.
Note: Crimea looks less and less defendable by the day. With sanctions and international support for Ukraine, Russia is the one with a ticking clock.
I could maybe understand the criticism if Russia had made further gains, but you have to keep in mind that Ukraine has liberated 74,443 km² or 28,743 square miles since the start of the invasion. The offensive may not have had the effect that many hoped for after their earlier successes but they are facing defensive positions that have been set up and fortified over months. It will take some time to force a breakthrough and they are still constantly chipping away at the frontline. It’s a good thing that they are advancing carefully and not just sending expendable waves of untrained soldiers like the Russians do.
It’s an interesting product of a western world that hasnt really seen war in 70 years. It’s always been far away.
We seek instant gratification, when in reality these are people’s lives. It should move slowly, especially against heavily mined positions. I’m wondering if we’ll see much progress until the F-16s enter the field to gain air support for the ground troops.
a western world that hasnt really seen war in 70 years
Do TV stations in the West don’t show the war they produce? Because as far as I know we haven’t stopped having wars where the West is involved since at least 200 years, so I’m not really sure I follow you there. Afghanistan doesn’t count or what?
Wars are distant things to North America. A product that is viewed only through glass or a screen. There has never been conventional war on modern north American soil, so it is something people go to, but not a devastation that really affects day to day life.
I’d liken the attitude more to Hollywood movies: an export of American (US) culture.
So the understanding that this is people’s literal homes. That life is finite, and war is atrocious is disconnected. I can watch Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, Black Hawk Down, etc. to get a taste of war, but when I’m done with it, I want it to resolve and be over.
That’s not possible for Ukrainians. Their country is still occupied. The devastation on their land will continue for decades.
Even if they crash through the lines next week, and sweep aside Russian defences like dust there are decades of rebuilding and de-mining ahead.
The cultural West must be willing to be in that journey every step of the way, or we risk another radicalized generation in the future that heard the promises, but lived the broken actions.
All in my opinion, of course, from the safety of my home.
Sure it has, but it has mainly seen it through the lens of the USA. The USA has been able to overpower other militaries on such an extreme scale that people think a war should be over in a week.
Most of the deaths were saw in Iraq and Afghanistan were from an insurgency fighting an occupying force. It wasn’t the same as two industrial nations fighting. No one really covered the Iran-Iraq War, so the closest experience would likely be Korea.
Instant gratification?? How about instant, decisive and meaningful support? Day 1, tanks have crossed the border and are advancing towards Kiyv? Close all borders, halt all trade, threaten to nuke Moscow unless they leave by Day 3, nuke Moscow on day 3.
Instead, the western world offers thoughts, prayers and excuses, with only occasional tanks here and there in between, months and years too late, making it worse for literally everyone. So when people that are watching Ukraine been helped just enough to save the helpers’ faces, suffering through the bloodshed unfolding for a year+, and said people are not willing to normalize the shameful history page they’re living through… I think it’s neither fair nor productive to accuse them of seeking instant gratification.
Damn, if everybody really demanded instant gratification, democracies worked and politicians complied, we would’ve been talking about the war in past tense.
It’s almost like no one wants to start a global thermonuclear war that annihilates our species. I’m glad the actual people in charge are able to see the shades of grey you can’t.
It’s their entitlement that is causing them to demand instant gratification, to people like this the war is an “inconvenience” and every additional minute they have to deal with the reality of this extremely important war it’s a sign that they’re not getting their gratification sated. We’re all struggling and making sacrifices and the entitled among us are far less willing to participate in that struggle and make those sacrifices.
Ukrainian officials and their supporters say they are confident they will prevail on the battlefield in the end, but warn against what they see as unrealistic expectations in media coverage and commentaries that could create a misleading narrative suggesting it cannot and will not win.
Although equipped with new U.S. and other Western-made weapons and gear, including tanks, longer-range missiles and artillery ammunition, Ukraine lacks air power and has encountered stiff resistance from the Russian forces who have planted hundreds of mines across the front line, set up anti-tank barriers and dug rows of defensive trenches.
“We are confident that they have significant combat capability available to them, and that they’re going to employ that at a time and place of their choosing to defend their country and take back sovereign territory,” Pentagon press secretary Brig.
Leonid Polyakov, a former Ukrainian vice defense minister, said that in two separate cases, once in June and another time in July, a brigade commander had pursued direct assaults during the counteroffensive in hopes of a swift victory.
An assault with armored units in June failed to break through Russian lines in the south and, in the past week, Ukraine has made a concentrated effort in the western area of the Zaporizhia oblast, according to analysts and U.S. officials.
Both Ukrainian and Russian forces have failed to achieve major advances, and Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at the Rand Corp think tank, argues that neither side has a realistic chance of scoring a definitive victory.
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Has my research on this been just been somehow skewed over the past months or does it really seem like Western media is suddenly turning on Ukraine?
Until like 1-2 weeks ago it was really difficult to find anything overly critical about Ukraine and now it seems as of there’s a sudden change in coverage.
Is it just me? I think I’ve been rather thorough.
They’re getting ready to bail I think.
I haven’t been thorough at all, but it seems that way to me. Not liking it.
Ukraine: we need tanks/armor!
West: hmm, no that would be too provocative.
months later, as Russia digs trenches and lays mines
West: ok, ok, here are some tanks
Ukraine: Great, can we get better ammunition?
West: What?! No, yeesh.
months of mines and trenches later
West: Ok here are cluster munitions
Ukraine: thank you. None of this really works without air support though so…
West: What is your deal?
mine, mine, mine, trench trench
West: Ok maybe some F16s.
West: yo, what’s taking so long?
Ukraine: I’m sorry? I can’t hear you over ALL THE FUCKING MINES
The longer the war lasts, the happier are the military industrial complex and its shareholders.
What a detailed description of all the Wunderwaffe they’ve been using, thanks!
Some U.S. officials should read Aesop’s Fables, specifically one named “The Tortoise and the Hare”.
You could also say that Russia is the tortoise, so I don’t think it’s applicable here.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Ukraine cannot win here. Russia has the world’s most devious and cruel combat engineers laying in miles and miles of entrenched defence fortifications. Backed by Russia’s world leading artillery battalions, there is no way Ukraine can push back Russia without battlefield nukes.
Russia is already laying in massive quantities of entrenched long range radar, antiaircraft batteries and missiles. US cannot acquire air power over that region any longer. If you have played a realistic war flightsim like Falcon 5.0, you will know air power cannot prevail against Russia’s AA tech.
lmao
The F-35 has been operating over Syria for years against those supposedly infallible Russian AA defenses. So far the only thing that’s been able to hit them is a bird.
The f35 has stealth tech specifically designed to go against Russian AA, and the Syrians had antiquated systems.
The f16 does not, and the Russians have lots of the latest generation AA because they’re the ones who make it.
The F16 will be vulnerable but not completely useless, as implied by the other post.
Yes, I agree, it will be very briefly useful.
Tankies are gonna tankie.
“Bully punches kid and steals $50, kid only manages to get back $30, is the kid a fucking loser?” This is what the sentiment usually feels like, even if it’s not what the reporting is about, please be aware of this.
Let’s leave the rest of your narrative alone for second. Kid fights back and loses use of several fingers, loses several teeth, and is now deaf in one ear but has managed to get back $0.10
How is this math accurate?
Only got back $.10? Ukraine regained 33% or so of their captured land (or 50%-52% regained of the land lost since the second invasion). So, it would be around $16 or $17 (or $25-26 for the second invasion).
So the bully now has now attacked and lost use of several fingers, lost several teeth, and is now deaf in one ear … Same goes for his friend he conscripted to help. Plus his work told him he is getting a pay cut (sanctions)
But I don’t think could deprogram your propagandized brain.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66383377
That doesn’t look like 33% to me
Before 2022, Russia occupied 42,000 km2 (16,000 sq mi) of Ukrainian territory (Crimea, and parts of Donetsk and Luhansk), and occupied an additional 119,000 km2 (46,000 sq mi) after its full-scale invasion by March 2022, a total of 161,000 km2 (62,000 sq mi) or almost 27% of Ukraine’s territory.[8] By 11 November, the Institute for the Study of War calculated that Ukrainian forces had liberated an area of 74,443 km2 (28,743 sq mi) from Russian occupation,[9] leaving Russia with control of about 18% of Ukraine’s territory.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian-occupied_territories_of_Ukraine
You’re right my math was off: 74,443/161,000=46% liberated
Oh, I see, you’re talking about literally ever single place that Russia walked through at some point in the last 9 years and calling all of that not only “occupied” but also “successfully regained through counteroffensive”. A truly expansive definition.
The rest of the world is instead looking at this through the lens of realism. Through this lens, territory is constantly in a state of flux and much territory cannot actually be held successfully. Russia has expressed its intent quite clearly and it is not the total annexation of Ukraine, so assuming the goal of each deployment is annexation leads to terribly faulty analysis. Instead, we look at how the movement of troops through areas that are not holdable are nevertheless strategically valuable in establishing the perimeter that is holdable. This is where the much vaunted “spring/summer counter-offensive” enters the calculation.
Prior to this counter-offensive, Ukraine was deemed to have lost it’s 2nd full army and was requesting a replenishment from the West in order to keep fighting. This is when all the Western liberals turned into tankies and kept crowing about the awesome tanks that were being sent to Ukraine for the counter-offensive. Since the launch of the counter-offensive, Ukraine has recovered about 10mi, a tiny tiny fraction of the territory. Worse, they have lost a massive portion of their now 3rd army built on these shipments from the West.
You don’t have to believe the BBC, but it certainly runs entirely counter to whatever propagandist BS that wikipedia article reads as.
Lmao so what would you describe the massive losses Russia has taken in terms of lives, machinery, and munitions, as well as the open revolt Wagner engaged in? If Ukraine is losing fingers, teeth, and hearing, I imagine Russia has full on lost a limb and has bleeding to stabilize.
That rebellion was probably part of Put-daddy’s plan tho, right?
The US is sending more aid per year than Russia’s entirely military budget and Russia hasn’t even gotten through it’s old weapon systems yet.
But that’s also besides the point. Let’s assume you’re right and Russia has lost more than Ukraine. How does that jive with Ukraine’s inability to make meaningful progress in their offensive? They’ve reclaimed something like .2% of their lost territory, which is easily within the margins of the ebb and flow of conflict.
So Putin, who is openly saying that the offensive isn’t going as planned, is OK sending tens of thousands of soldiers into the grinder agaisnt better equipment, just to go through surplus? He’s choosing to have thousands of Russians killed while sitting on equipment that could keep them safe?
What a guy. Noble cause he’s after, de-nazi-fying a sovereign nation, while also getting his citizens massacred in tank columns and shoddy equipment while he keeps the good stuff at home.
Unless that isn’t what he’s doing? But you did just say they were using old stuff on purpose. You wouldn’t be wrong, would you?
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Sovereign as is the highest authority in the territory. The US is a sovereign nation. European countries are sovereign. In fact, most of the countries on the planet can be described as sovereign nations…
“Sovereign” does nothing to describe the type of governance the country has? Or do you have some wild insight about how sovereign actually means it’s an installed dictatorship?
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Ah yes so its the kids fault, proper authoritarian mindset (let’s leave the rest of your narrative alone, fuck you I’m right cause I have more power) technically true but I thought you guys were “anti imperialist”
Lol. I don’t need to deal with your nonsensical vomit. If you can’t even formulate coherent thoughts after looking at real numbers and flying into a foaming rage I don’t think I could deprogram your propagandized brain.
Yes 0 evidence and rebuttal and just insults, do continue please?
There was, quite literally, nothing to rebut.
deleted by creator
this article reads like an impatient investor
That is because that is the relationship. The west has been massively privatizing Ukraine.
Big claims require big evidence.
https://privatization.gov.ua/en/
Literally one search away.
Just shouting the quiet part from the rooftops. Absolutely beyond parody.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ukraine-embraces-widespread-privatization-state-202500490.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADXkm45M_BZ1BHFZOmjPnYwkaXpv7VIRo9a0l53Vbio_75VKb0ecWKLv8I05XGatZUrXhxbmZeNW4Y-ngNuGDvTAUzOMjFOaAge-0Cqhxfhm8SDWWPmtS6jmRKo_oNlHLm35u9NvTTHpQe8XYh57esWtZK6fZSgqYKjhsSnhXyUB
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All that describes is a lease and buy-back scheme for a state desperate for cash (understandably). It states nothing about “the west privatising Ukraine”. No statement of pressure, no statement about western influence in the decision.
War is an investment
Mostly slow due to mines and the dam. Recently, Ukraine has made good progress in Crimea and some surprise attacks on RF assets. It will just take some time is all.
Note: Crimea looks less and less defendable by the day. With sanctions and international support for Ukraine, Russia is the one with a ticking clock.
I could maybe understand the criticism if Russia had made further gains, but you have to keep in mind that Ukraine has liberated 74,443 km² or 28,743 square miles since the start of the invasion. The offensive may not have had the effect that many hoped for after their earlier successes but they are facing defensive positions that have been set up and fortified over months. It will take some time to force a breakthrough and they are still constantly chipping away at the frontline. It’s a good thing that they are advancing carefully and not just sending expendable waves of untrained soldiers like the Russians do.
The front lines have remained basically static since Fall '22.
It’s an interesting product of a western world that hasnt really seen war in 70 years. It’s always been far away.
We seek instant gratification, when in reality these are people’s lives. It should move slowly, especially against heavily mined positions. I’m wondering if we’ll see much progress until the F-16s enter the field to gain air support for the ground troops.
Do TV stations in the West don’t show the war they produce? Because as far as I know we haven’t stopped having wars where the West is involved since at least 200 years, so I’m not really sure I follow you there. Afghanistan doesn’t count or what?
Might be a play on the word “see” here.
Wars are distant things to North America. A product that is viewed only through glass or a screen. There has never been conventional war on modern north American soil, so it is something people go to, but not a devastation that really affects day to day life.
I’d liken the attitude more to Hollywood movies: an export of American (US) culture.
So the understanding that this is people’s literal homes. That life is finite, and war is atrocious is disconnected. I can watch Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, Black Hawk Down, etc. to get a taste of war, but when I’m done with it, I want it to resolve and be over.
That’s not possible for Ukrainians. Their country is still occupied. The devastation on their land will continue for decades.
Even if they crash through the lines next week, and sweep aside Russian defences like dust there are decades of rebuilding and de-mining ahead.
The cultural West must be willing to be in that journey every step of the way, or we risk another radicalized generation in the future that heard the promises, but lived the broken actions.
All in my opinion, of course, from the safety of my home.
Sure it has, but it has mainly seen it through the lens of the USA. The USA has been able to overpower other militaries on such an extreme scale that people think a war should be over in a week.
Most of the deaths were saw in Iraq and Afghanistan were from an insurgency fighting an occupying force. It wasn’t the same as two industrial nations fighting. No one really covered the Iran-Iraq War, so the closest experience would likely be Korea.
They showed what the US government wanted them to see.
Instant gratification?? How about instant, decisive and meaningful support? Day 1, tanks have crossed the border and are advancing towards Kiyv? Close all borders, halt all trade, threaten to nuke Moscow unless they leave by Day 3, nuke Moscow on day 3.
Instead, the western world offers thoughts, prayers and excuses, with only occasional tanks here and there in between, months and years too late, making it worse for literally everyone. So when people that are watching Ukraine been helped just enough to save the helpers’ faces, suffering through the bloodshed unfolding for a year+, and said people are not willing to normalize the shameful history page they’re living through… I think it’s neither fair nor productive to accuse them of seeking instant gratification.
Damn, if everybody really demanded instant gratification, democracies worked and politicians complied, we would’ve been talking about the war in past tense.
It’s almost like no one wants to start a global thermonuclear war that annihilates our species. I’m glad the actual people in charge are able to see the shades of grey you can’t.
I’m sorry you fell victim to the powerful madman image Russia is so desperate to project, when (misguided) rational cowardrice is all it does.
It’s their entitlement that is causing them to demand instant gratification, to people like this the war is an “inconvenience” and every additional minute they have to deal with the reality of this extremely important war it’s a sign that they’re not getting their gratification sated. We’re all struggling and making sacrifices and the entitled among us are far less willing to participate in that struggle and make those sacrifices.
They are worried of losing control of the narrative, not of the war. They said the quiet part out loud.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Ukrainian officials and their supporters say they are confident they will prevail on the battlefield in the end, but warn against what they see as unrealistic expectations in media coverage and commentaries that could create a misleading narrative suggesting it cannot and will not win.
Although equipped with new U.S. and other Western-made weapons and gear, including tanks, longer-range missiles and artillery ammunition, Ukraine lacks air power and has encountered stiff resistance from the Russian forces who have planted hundreds of mines across the front line, set up anti-tank barriers and dug rows of defensive trenches.
“We are confident that they have significant combat capability available to them, and that they’re going to employ that at a time and place of their choosing to defend their country and take back sovereign territory,” Pentagon press secretary Brig.
Leonid Polyakov, a former Ukrainian vice defense minister, said that in two separate cases, once in June and another time in July, a brigade commander had pursued direct assaults during the counteroffensive in hopes of a swift victory.
An assault with armored units in June failed to break through Russian lines in the south and, in the past week, Ukraine has made a concentrated effort in the western area of the Zaporizhia oblast, according to analysts and U.S. officials.
Both Ukrainian and Russian forces have failed to achieve major advances, and Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at the Rand Corp think tank, argues that neither side has a realistic chance of scoring a definitive victory.
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
“hundreds of mines”
I’m willing to bet there’s like at least a thousand.