Here’s a community node for mastodon

Should this be a link to something?

We appear to be at an impasse.

I’ve recently been adding an API to PieFed and forked the Lemmy Thunder app as way to test things. My position on this comes from tinkering with Thunder - I can’t claim to understand it all, but it seems to me that the API and the app are fundamentally interlinked in ways that make being too adventurous with it difficult. For that app, it would break the existing paradigm to do the kinds of things you’re talking about. Thunder uses its own version of an API client (written in Dart), but I’ve assumed that other apps are written in a similar way, and are essentially wrappers around Lemmy’s JavaScript client.

Hopefully, someone else with more app development experience will contribute to this discussion, and set one of us right (I don’t mind if it’s me that’s wrong).

Most frontends already display available crossposts so you’re not wasting anything more than grabbing all the comment sections as well.

We’re talking about different things. I’m talking about the view you get when you first open an app - the ‘home’ screen that lists the posts. The API response for api/v3/post/list doesn’t indicate whether something has been crossposted. You can see for yourself by getting a list of the 2 oldest posts on lemmy.ml:

curl --request GET --url 'https://lemmy.ml/api/v3/post/list?type_=Local&sort=Old&page=1&limit=2' --header 'accept: application/json' | jq .

For those 2 posts, you can only find out if they have crossposts by individually querying each post using the api/v3/post endpoint - the first one in that list would be:

curl --request GET --url 'https://lemmy.ml/api/v3/post?id=2' --header 'accept: application/json' | jq .

where crossposts would be in the ‘cross_posts’ array.

So for an app to display whether a posts listed on the main feed have crossposts, they’d have to query post/list, and then for each entry, query /post as well. This isn’t the way these things typically work - there’s normally a 1-to-1 relationship between an API query, and displaying the results of that query on the page. Looping through the list you’ve been given, and making extra queries adds complexity and delay, when the expectation from the user is that this list should appear pretty quickly.

What you’re talking about, is the view once a user has clicked on a post, not the post list. This provides the crossposts info. It’s important to realise though, that the cross_posts array provides everything an app could want to display info about the other posts. It’s not like they are pulling the data for one post, and then pulling data for each listed crosspost, so if they were to start getting the comments for each crosspost, that would be an extra effort (and a potential waste).

I don’t agree at all. There’s space for complex frontends which attempt to adjust the feed according to their own logic, as well as minimalistic frontends which follow the backend’s design explicitly.

My counter to that, would be that if you aren’t using the API in the way the developers expected, your app has ceased to be frontend, and is instead its own program that’s scraping data from it. There are already some heavy desktop-orientated frontends, and none of them do what you’re proposing. I think that the reason why, is because the proper way to do it is for the Lemmy’s backend to be changed to provide the information they need in one go. That’s unlikely to happen, but that doesn’t mean that hacking away at an improper solution is necessarily the right answer (you just end up supporting a project that isn’t supporting you in return).

No reason that I can see. Your instance is sending stuff out, LW is getting stuff in, you’re not banned on LW (as far as I can see), LW and feddit.org are likely in the same part of the world (so no fed delays). There’s been times when LW has received a post and federated it out, but not shown it itself, but that’s not the case either.

I don’t know. It might be worth asking on LW’s matrix channel, to see if an admin will look into it.

Frontends generate the main feed by querying api/v3/post/list. This doesn’t provide any crosspost info - for that you have to go into the post itself by querying api/v3/post. As such, frontends would have to do a fair bit of extra work to wrangle the required information for a main feed that combined crossposts. The only attempt I’ve seen at doing this was in a dev branch of Tesseract.

I’d argue that you have a problem as soon as you start saying ‘frontends need to do some extra work’ - it breaks the dynamic between backends and frontends. Backends should be big, complicated things, worked on by people familiar with the project, to provide all the logic, whereas frontends should be light, relatively easy to write, runnable on devices with limited resources, and mostly focused on how the information provided to them should be displayed. They should store the user’s preferences, and login details, and that’s it - everything else should come from the backend.

As for combining comments, this can lead to fraught situations. This link was posted to both ‘cars’ and ‘fuckcars’. This link was posted to both ‘taylorswift’ and whatever-the-fuck ‘barelower4thwomenmusic’ is: so the comments for a music video would be from Taylor Swift fans, as well as from people with a foot fetish. Moreover, if this is the expected behaviour, trolls can use it to get up to no good, and make a bunch of comments appear in a new crosspost to a community subscribed to by people guaranteed to disagree with them.

I think anyone trying to ‘fix’ this issue will run into the fact that certain assumptions have been made in a software’s design, and those assumptions determine how database relationships are formed. The real answer may lie in something like ‘ClubsAll’, rather than an attempt to fundamentally redesign existing platforms.

In the meantime, crossposting is being actively encouraged. Movie news is posted to 5 different communities, open-source news is posted to 8, Taylor Swift music videos are posted to 12. The useful crossposts (one that help you discover a new community) are in the minority - most of it just ends up being annoying. And it’s because there this idea, that some time in the future, there’ll be a tech solution to make it less annoying, and the suggestion that maybe you should just pick the community you like and post to that, is - to me - surprisingly unpopular. Not only might this solution never come, but anything URL-based can’t do anything about the same question being posed to ‘nostupidquestions’ and both ‘asklemmys’, or with an image being uploaded and posted to one community, and then re-uploaded to post to another.

This whole thing feels like trying to find a tech solution to what I see as a user problem of mindless posting to as many communities as you can find. To be honest, it’s a problem that makes me a bit disillusioned (I saw a post the other day that was posted to both ‘interestingasfuck’ and ‘mildlyinteresting’, and thought - if that’s the community names we’re going with, and this behaviour is apparently okay, then we may as well be on Reddit).

There’s a lot of drama in that Issue, and then, at the very end:

Thanks for sharing your concerns here. We have been progressing use of our SDK in more use cases for our clients. However, our goal is to make sure that the SDK is used in a way that maintains GPL compatibility.

the SDK and the client are two separate programs
code for each program is in separate repositories
the fact that the two programs communicate using standard protocols does not mean they are one program for purposes of GPLv3

Being able to build the app as you are trying to do here is an issue we plan to resolve and is merely a bug.

To my mind, the ideal would be that if you, as the person who wants to share some ‘open-source’ news, chose one community that you think is ‘best’ (based on what instance it’s on, if the mods are real people and are active, participation levels, whatever you think really). And we, as subscribers, would do the same. This way, the ‘good’ communities would thrive, and the ‘bad’ ones would wither away. What happens at the minute, is that there’s 8 communities for open source, and there’ll always will be, because they aren’t in competition with one another.

(this is mostly just a general point about cross-posting behaviour, it’s not meant as a dig at you personally).

Congrats.

There’s also a !lemmyapps@lemmy.world, btw.

I know all the cool kids hate on AI, but as someone out of the loop, that ‘podcast’ is really impressive. I guess it speaks to how a influential certain style of podcasting is (from the likes of NPR) that a machine can copy it the same as other humans do.

As for the embedded link, this works for me (and others on the same site as me), but it might not for others:

I think they’re all pushing their luck with it, trying to get away with it until any actual legal repercussions happen. I first saw this a while ago with a French newspaper - apparently the majority of newspapers there do it.

Just curious: how would you classify Chrome OS? As Community/Linux or Community/Linux/Chrome (to recognise how much heavy lifting the browser is doing). And would you want to call Google’s additions ‘Community’ or something else?

Well, it won’t help you (or me), but the the most active is probably https://hexbear.net/c/ama (the lemmy.world seems to have got nuked, and the already-mentioned lemmy.ca one is the only other one I found)

Yeah. There’s no wildcard call. One thing you could do to script it would be pull JSONs from https://data.lemmyverse.net - use one for the initial effort, then subsequent ones to track new communities. You’d definitely want to filter it - as you’ve noticed the vast majority of that 30k are dead or spam or something you wouldn’t want for one reason or another (e.g. communities from instances you’ve defederated from).

As for what bots do, it depends on how they were programmed I suppose. There’s a bonkers one on https://leaf.dance that just seems to crawl comments and subscribe to any ! links it finds, but there are others (I can’t remember their names) where it’s more of a manual job (the mods of a community submit the details to it).

is it in reality not “all” but only “all posts that at least one user of this instance is subscribed to”?

Exactly this, yes. Not literally ‘all’ (a brand new instance would have nothing in its All feed). This is what was meant by ‘partial data set’ - everything for a subscribed community (from the moment it was subscribed to), but nothing for a community that no-one’s subscribed to.

Some instances run bots to populated their All feed more than what would happen naturally (with the idea being that the bot unsubscribes when a human does)

Oh this is one of those new-fangled ‘immutable’ OSs. I just watched a PeerTube Video from The Linux Experiment about it - it looks complicated but it’s something I’d like to try out at some point in the future.

I use beets for exactly this.

Yeah (well, nerds anyway). With Lemmy, if you do curl --header 'accept: application/activity+json' --location https://lemmy.wtf/c/gametrailers/followers | jq . it tells you there’s 68 but not who they are. With PeerTube you can do curl --header 'accept: application/activity+json' --location https://peertube.wtf/video-channels/startgametrailers/followers?page=1 | jq . and it provides names (including me and you and a bot from leaf.dance)

(edit to fix URLs)

It’s perhaps worth mentioning that - unlike Lemmy - PeerTube makes subscriber info public. I mean, it’s no great secret that I’ve subbed to your channel at !startgametrailers@peertube.wtf, but it’s the kind of thing that some people care about.

Just a temporary thing with Lemmy I think - PeerTube (like Lemmy and Mastodon) are already part of the fediverse. You used to be able to successfully subscribe to PeerTube channels from Lemmy (when it was on 0.18), and likely will be able to in future (it’s just a Lemmy bug that needs a fix).

It’s federated like Lemmy, so each platform has ‘local videos’ and an ‘all videos’ section. E.g. https://fedi.video/videos/local and https://fedi.video/videos/overview

Of course, since it’s federated, it means other platforms like PieFed, MBIN and Mastodon can access the same stuff, so you don’t need to register anywhere if you’re on one of them.