I think it depends. Some people might be inclined to use too short or simple password because they don’t wanna constantly be typing a long password. It’s much better to have a strong password and fingerprint/face rec for convince than just a insecure password.
The other underappreciated threat model is shoulder surfing, especially in an age of ubiquitous high resolution cameras. Punching in a numerical PIN within view of a camera potentially leaks that secret, and some high resolution cameras can even pick up letters and symbols from the on screen keyboards.
Being compelled to give biometrics doesn’t do enough for an adversary (including government adversaries) to do everything with a phone, the way having the password or PIN does, and I would argue that governments would be better at tricking people into inadvertently giving up their PINs and passwords than they’d be at compelling biometrics within the time window that they still work (before the phones lockout biometrics as a valid unlocking method), or being able to do stuff to exploit extraction tools past the lock screen.
So the threat model needs to be understood for what it is.
Hell, I still sometimes think about the research team that tried to make a camera in a bus (so at the front pointed towards the faces of riders) obtain passwords from the reflections off of sunglasses. They collectively facepalmed when they tried it with their test subject, but accidentally picked up the passwords of several others on the bus that were not part of the experiment.
That was something like 8-12 years ago… Capabilities now are likely insane.
Law enforcement can legally trick you into giving up your password, too, and that’s full access right there. Having an unlocked phone but no password isn’t enough to get into certain parts of the core system/security settings, and trying to get into those will prompt a password anyway (and that generally gatekeeps the access to the phone through a physical connector plugged into the port).
Neither pathway is perfect but I think for real world usage and real world adversaries (not just law enforcement, but also criminal thieves/scammers/hackers, and governmental adversaries that aren’t bound by legal limits, like foreign intelligence agencies), it’s better to have biometrics so that you are physically punching in your PIN/password much less frequently. Especially on modern systems that get spooked easily and require a password anyway when the phone has been idle too long or when the wrong face looks at it too many times.
Yes, but that’s besides the point. If the convenient options for a normie user are
Having a weak password
Having a strong password and a fingerprint
Out of those the fingerprint with a strong password is way better option, imo.
In the USA, they can legally force you to unlock a device using biometrics.
Also, how does that work? Can’t they legally force you to enter your password too? Or can you claim you don’t remember it? If that works, can’t you just have a band-aid on your finger or something? Surely they cannot force you to take it off and risk getting an infection on the large wound you just happened to get yesterday…?
Also, how does that work? Can’t they legally force you to enter your password too?
No, because forcing someone to enter a password is “compelled speech” and against the 1st Amendment. It’s also testimonial, which means compelling that speech would also be self incrimination, which is against the 5th Amendment.
Don’t ask me why forcing someone to make a hand gesture is not also compelled speech and not testimonial. The Constitution is mostly nonsense being interpreted by life appointed morons who interpret things however they like.
A normal user will most likely never encounter a situation where their weak password would be at risk, but are much more likely to having their biometrics forced by law enforcement or border control.
They will rip your bandaid off and force your finger or face to scan while holding your device.
Any weak password at all would have been better in a situation like that.
Oh wow, things really have gotten bad over there. For me personally, the much greater risk is that I forget my phone somewhere or someone steals it and in that scenario a weak password is the larger issue.
It seems there isn’t a single correct answer here. The threat model is different for everyone.
I think it depends. Some people might be inclined to use too short or simple password because they don’t wanna constantly be typing a long password. It’s much better to have a strong password and fingerprint/face rec for convince than just a insecure password.
Cops can’t force you to give up your password even if its 12345.
Depends on the cops
No, depends on the country.
The other underappreciated threat model is shoulder surfing, especially in an age of ubiquitous high resolution cameras. Punching in a numerical PIN within view of a camera potentially leaks that secret, and some high resolution cameras can even pick up letters and symbols from the on screen keyboards.
Being compelled to give biometrics doesn’t do enough for an adversary (including government adversaries) to do everything with a phone, the way having the password or PIN does, and I would argue that governments would be better at tricking people into inadvertently giving up their PINs and passwords than they’d be at compelling biometrics within the time window that they still work (before the phones lockout biometrics as a valid unlocking method), or being able to do stuff to exploit extraction tools past the lock screen.
So the threat model needs to be understood for what it is.
Hell, I still sometimes think about the research team that tried to make a camera in a bus (so at the front pointed towards the faces of riders) obtain passwords from the reflections off of sunglasses. They collectively facepalmed when they tried it with their test subject, but accidentally picked up the passwords of several others on the bus that were not part of the experiment.
That was something like 8-12 years ago… Capabilities now are likely insane.
In the USA, they can legally force you to unlock a device using biometrics.
Also, biometrics can be fooled in other ways.
Ah just don’t go to the USA or don’t take a device with information on it there.
Law enforcement can legally trick you into giving up your password, too, and that’s full access right there. Having an unlocked phone but no password isn’t enough to get into certain parts of the core system/security settings, and trying to get into those will prompt a password anyway (and that generally gatekeeps the access to the phone through a physical connector plugged into the port).
Neither pathway is perfect but I think for real world usage and real world adversaries (not just law enforcement, but also criminal thieves/scammers/hackers, and governmental adversaries that aren’t bound by legal limits, like foreign intelligence agencies), it’s better to have biometrics so that you are physically punching in your PIN/password much less frequently. Especially on modern systems that get spooked easily and require a password anyway when the phone has been idle too long or when the wrong face looks at it too many times.
Yes, but that’s besides the point. If the convenient options for a normie user are
Out of those the fingerprint with a strong password is way better option, imo.
Also, how does that work? Can’t they legally force you to enter your password too? Or can you claim you don’t remember it? If that works, can’t you just have a band-aid on your finger or something? Surely they cannot force you to take it off and risk getting an infection on the large wound you just happened to get yesterday…?
No, because forcing someone to enter a password is “compelled speech” and against the 1st Amendment. It’s also testimonial, which means compelling that speech would also be self incrimination, which is against the 5th Amendment.
Don’t ask me why forcing someone to make a hand gesture is not also compelled speech and not testimonial. The Constitution is mostly nonsense being interpreted by life appointed morons who interpret things however they like.
Bible / Quran, is that you?
‘Or’ not ‘and’. Fingerprint replaces the password for access.
A bandaid would simply be removed. No you can’t just say “no”. A password is protected though.
A normal user will most likely never encounter a situation where their weak password would be at risk, but are much more likely to having their biometrics forced by law enforcement or border control.
They will rip your bandaid off and force your finger or face to scan while holding your device.
Any weak password at all would have been better in a situation like that.
How?
You can’t be compelled to give up your password.
A weak password they can guess.
Compared to guaranteed success, a weak password is superior.
Youre comparing a weak password to no password here and suggesting no password is better.
I’m not. I have never seen a device that can be set up without a password or pin in addition to face or fingerprint unlock.
You have to have both.
Oh wow, things really have gotten bad over there. For me personally, the much greater risk is that I forget my phone somewhere or someone steals it and in that scenario a weak password is the larger issue.
It seems there isn’t a single correct answer here. The threat model is different for everyone.
I think the correct answer is that your device shouldn’t suggest you to have a weak password work around, it should suggest a stronger password