Honest question: What would you base an alternative system on? I think any economic system needs to appeal to something as basic as self-interest to survive long-term. If a population exists, there’s a sum total amount of labor that needs to be done to sustain them. How do you motivate the labor?
Socialism provides an easy answer to this. Democratizing the means of production doesn’t mean that everyone gets shit for free, quite the contrary. Socialism just means that the surplus labor is no longer given for free to (well, more like “stolen by”) a capitalist, but gets somewhat fairly distributed to everyone by being invested in science, industrial development and social programs through the state. All able-bodied citizens must still work in order to get paid.
I think the critical part related to that discussion is that socialist cultures don’t glorify individual wealth (which directly incentivizes greed), instead focusing on the values of honest labor, mutual aid, societal progress, and the common wealth. This may be a path to eventually remove individual self-interest as a motivator completely, and instead switch to social expectations and the feeling of belonging as motivators to perform labor - “from everyone according to their abilities, to everyone according to their needs”, a.k.a communism. It wouldn’t be an easy road for sure, especially looking at it from the perspective of modern humans scarred by capitalism, but I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility. After all, humans do selfless acts for the benefit of their social group all the time, we just need to cultivate that part of our psyche instead of the greedy one.
I’m also personally quite attracted to anarchist ideologies, which don’t have as cohesive of an answer for dealing with greed but do promise an even more awesome society, with no central authority to be greedy whatsoever. If we could get something like that to work, that could indeed be the end of history.
Just to check, are you arguing for pure socialism or a blended system?
gets somewhat fairly distributed to everyone… through the state.
Not that capitalism doesn’t have its share of this problem, but this is a massive centralization of authority and management. How can that be safeguarded against inevitable corruption?
Also, thoughts on how the ideal system would treat non-essential goods and best motivate innovation in “frivolities?” It’s one thing to want people to stop valuing excess wealth, but people are still going to want movies, video games, food ingredients from across the planet, etc.
After all, humans do selfless acts for the benefit of their social group all the time, we just need to cultivate that part of our psyche instead of the greedy one.
A tall order, but I give away a portion of my wealth regularly and like Star Trek, so I get it. Lol.
I’m also personally quite attracted to anarchist ideologies, which don’t have as cohesive of an answer for dealing with greed but do promise an even more awesome society, with no central authority to be greedy whatsoever.
Not just greed, but every negative human trait that can turn someone into a bad actor. Needing a system for dealing with bad actors and outside threats is how we got all these systems to begin with.
Just to check, are you arguing for pure socialism or a blended system?
I’m arguing for literally anything that moves beyond capitalism. Whether it’s a Chinese-style mixed economy where haute capitalists are allowed but regulated, a NEP-style mixed economy where only small businesses are privately owned, a full-blown planned economy where no capitalists are allowed, a federation of co-ops…
Not that capitalism doesn’t have its share of this problem, but this is a massive centralization of authority and management. How can that be safeguarded against inevitable corruption?
Through democratic mechanisms, mostly. I won’t claim that democracy worked very well in USSR or China but it sure as hell is/was better for people living there than the capitalist “democracies” of the west.
Honest question: What would you base an alternative system on? I think any economic system needs to appeal to something as basic as self-interest to survive long-term. If a population exists, there’s a sum total amount of labor that needs to be done to sustain them. How do you motivate the labor?
Socialism provides an easy answer to this. Democratizing the means of production doesn’t mean that everyone gets shit for free, quite the contrary. Socialism just means that the surplus labor is no longer given for free to (well, more like “stolen by”) a capitalist, but gets somewhat fairly distributed to everyone by being invested in science, industrial development and social programs through the state. All able-bodied citizens must still work in order to get paid.
I think the critical part related to that discussion is that socialist cultures don’t glorify individual wealth (which directly incentivizes greed), instead focusing on the values of honest labor, mutual aid, societal progress, and the common wealth. This may be a path to eventually remove individual self-interest as a motivator completely, and instead switch to social expectations and the feeling of belonging as motivators to perform labor - “from everyone according to their abilities, to everyone according to their needs”, a.k.a communism. It wouldn’t be an easy road for sure, especially looking at it from the perspective of modern humans scarred by capitalism, but I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility. After all, humans do selfless acts for the benefit of their social group all the time, we just need to cultivate that part of our psyche instead of the greedy one.
I’m also personally quite attracted to anarchist ideologies, which don’t have as cohesive of an answer for dealing with greed but do promise an even more awesome society, with no central authority to be greedy whatsoever. If we could get something like that to work, that could indeed be the end of history.
Just to check, are you arguing for pure socialism or a blended system?
Not that capitalism doesn’t have its share of this problem, but this is a massive centralization of authority and management. How can that be safeguarded against inevitable corruption?
Also, thoughts on how the ideal system would treat non-essential goods and best motivate innovation in “frivolities?” It’s one thing to want people to stop valuing excess wealth, but people are still going to want movies, video games, food ingredients from across the planet, etc.
A tall order, but I give away a portion of my wealth regularly and like Star Trek, so I get it. Lol.
Not just greed, but every negative human trait that can turn someone into a bad actor. Needing a system for dealing with bad actors and outside threats is how we got all these systems to begin with.
I’m arguing for literally anything that moves beyond capitalism. Whether it’s a Chinese-style mixed economy where haute capitalists are allowed but regulated, a NEP-style mixed economy where only small businesses are privately owned, a full-blown planned economy where no capitalists are allowed, a federation of co-ops…
Through democratic mechanisms, mostly. I won’t claim that democracy worked very well in USSR or China but it sure as hell is/was better for people living there than the capitalist “democracies” of the west.