• GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    They’re not pigtails, they’re called “peyot”. Orthodox Jewish men grow theirs out because it’s part of the traditional dress code. In other parts of the world, they’re tucked under the yarmulke. But in occupied Palestine, it’s been in vogue to leave them hanging down.

    Fuck Israel generally, but don’t be ignorant.

    Edit: Holy fuck, guys, chill out a little bit. There’s criticizing a genocidal apartheid state, and then there’s just plain being racist. There’s a really thick line there, and y’all crossed it a loooong while ago.

    • The D Quuuuuill@slrpnk.net
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      3 days ago

      they’ve been called “pigtails” by outright antisemites since the late 1800s as a comentary on the curly textured hair of ashkenazi jews. just in case anyone’s curious where that term originates. i don’t assume that’s how most people in this modern time use the term, so i didn’t downvote since the other poster might have jost been thinking of the modern common girl’s hairstyle. but it still hit me REAL wrong

      • Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk
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        3 days ago

        I didn’t know what they were called. Without knowing the name I can’t think of any other word to describe them. I probably would have called them the same and I didn’t know that’s where the term came from. Now I do!

        • The D Quuuuuill@slrpnk.net
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          3 days ago

          like i said. i don’t presume most who say it say it out of hate or know that there’s a painful history associated with the term so i let it go. but since someone provided the proper term i figured i’d mention it

    • kreskin@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      don’t be ignorant.

      in occupied Palestine, it’s been in vogue to leave them hanging down

      and

      they’ve been called “pigtails” by outright antisemites

      I dont take any of israel’s definition of the world seriously, that includes their “in vogue” hairstyles while committing war crimes. They lost me when they defined anything they dont like as “antisemitism”. They lost enough of my respect that I dont agree to defining anything on their terms anymore. Not words, not actions, not anything having to do with their ideas. They live in my world now, exclusively. I dont care what you and they call their hair style, or who you link to “antisemitism”. So those are ponytails. If you want to kowtow to their definitions thats on you and not my problem.

      So “dont be ignorant” right back at both of you supremacist apologists. You can jam your implicit demand that I understand and honor these war criminals concepts directly up your rear. They deserve zero respect and explicit rejection in any avenue of civilized society, including their personal preferences around language.

      They are murdering people and you are worried that I get their ponytail names right. You two are both nuts.

      • The D Quuuuuill@slrpnk.net
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        2 days ago

        ponytail i take absolutely zero issue with. like i said, the issue i took with your comment was personal to me to the extent i wouldn’t have said anything unless someone mentioned they’re not called pigtails.

        i take a great deal more offense to what israel does as a human than to what you said as i said in a comment further down about how zionism is just one expression amongst many of jewish identity, and that it has failed multiple times before.

        i do not criticize those who criticize israel for criticizing israel. to criticize israel and israelis is right and good. they are on the wrong side of history and they will be remembered as poorly as any other authoritarian regime ever has.

        especially in a socialist space we have to acknowledge the harm israel performs at large globally in order to enable their genocide. their digital panopticon was funded by bosses and bankers who wanted to spy on their employees at work to boost productivity. the same technology that tells your boss when you haven’t moved your mouse in 15 minutes is the same technology the IOF uses to monitor and disrupt popular front actions.

      • Art3mis@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Way to have zero reading comprehension what so ever.

        This is like making fun of trump for his weight. There are much better things to point out that wont harm innocent people that you may know and love. You are being ignorant and hateful. Focus your hate to the important shit or go take a nap.

        • kreskin@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          I am being hateful yes. I hate genociders and supremacists and theres nothing wrong with that. Its good to not be at all tolerant of those things or those people. They do not deserve my tolerance. Its a free service that sane, thinking people provide in society. You are welcome.

          You should be conscious of rule 7 off to the right, do you see that no zionism and no genocide support rules there? Maybe you got lost looking for the zionism and fascism threads?

          • Art3mis@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            I didnt say dont be hateful [removed unnecessary insult]. I said stop being hateful about the wrong shit and focus your hate onto what matters. Holy.shit.

            • kreskin@lemmy.world
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              22 hours ago

              I reject your finely minced framing and choose to blanket hate the whole massively evil country, thanks.

              I feel like pedantic parsing like yours dishonestly runs defense against those on the left attacking the core of the problem: which is the constitution/basic laws/existsnce of Israel as a state. Arguments like: “Sure 82% of Israelis want to forcefully deport every arab from all land they control, but some tiny percentage of them (way under 18%) dont support that so how can you be against the whole country???”

              You place yourself bodily between people seeking justice for all humanity vs Israel, and use the tiny proportion of Israeli leftists as unwilling hostages against global calls for Israeli accountability for genocide and overwhelming support for ethnic cleansing and a continuation of 80 years of murderous abuse and state sponsored theft. I say the israeli government cant continue and cant/wont change, so it has to end, and that region be put under some adult leadership.

              You don’t believe that do you. By the nature of all your previous publicly available comments, you think Israel must exist for the Jewish people, by the Jewish people. So I think your opinion is crap, and your framing in this instance is contrived, dishonest and manipulative.

              • Art3mis@lemmy.world
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                10 hours ago

                Lmfao you dont know me or my opinion of israel. Go fuck yourself and have a terrible day

                Edit for the dunce: literally all of my “publicly available comments” about israel are staunchly anti israel. And that im jewish. You ae either a bad bot or a REALLY stupid person.

    • Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      3 days ago

      Can we be racist against fascists?

      I think yes.

      Thank you for the context, though, for when Lemmy encounters non-Zionist Jews with these hairstyles.

      • wewbull@feddit.uk
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        2 days ago

        No because then you’re not attacking the fascism. You’re attacking their ethnicity and by extension everybody of that ethnicity, fascist or not.

        • Look at that Jewish fascist. Fuck him and all his fascist friends.
        • Look at that Jewish fascist. Fuck him and all his Jewish friends.

        See the difference?

        • Brutticus@midwest.social
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          2 days ago

          Yeah. I remember episode of Chappo Trap House where they were making fun of Itamar Ben Gvir’s name, and I just turned it off and unsubbed. Like, as an antifascist Jew, who grew up in these spaces, yeah there were always Jewish fascists and zionists, but like Peyot and names like that are just normal. Just like, wtf, you guys are just showing their whole ass.

        • Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 days ago

          Your example extends to beyond the fascist though.

          I’m particularly interested in not giving respect to fascists themselves unlike the way I would afford respect to people of groups those fascists would otherwise belong to.

          I still stand by my belief that bigotry (and other strategies) towards fascists and the intolerant is OK so long as that bigotry starts and stops with those people. Bigotry towards non-fascists and the tolerant is NOT OK.

          Using racism or sexism or ageism is appropriate in these ways. In no way am I extending those beliefs towards others. That’s strawmanning.

          • dtaylor84@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 days ago

            You can’t “use racism or sexism or ageism” against some subset of people without harming the others, it always extends beyond the person you’re targeting because you are targeting their race/sex/age not them or their fascist actions