• ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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      5 days ago

      Europe being hostile towards China isn’t exactly news though. It’s the break up of the Atlantic alliance that’s the real story.

      • MrSmoothPP@lemmy.zip
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        4 days ago

        Is Europe’s hostility towards China not a function of US hegemony? Surely there’s less reason to be hostile now.

          • Lucius_Sweet@lemmy.world
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            4 days ago

            It is more than “racism and notions of white supremacy”, EU and China are both exporting and manufacturing powers. China recently moved into exporting the high value manufacturing products like cars which are a large part of the EUs economy making both blocks rivals.

            The Chinese government is using state subsidies to tip the balance further in the favour of Chinese manufacturers. This is just one example from one industry, this pattern is repeated by China across the board. The government is well within its rights to do this but the EU is equally well within its rights to protect its own economy from a form of trade war. It is incredibly reductive to just play the racism card while ignoring the real issues.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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              4 days ago

              EU is not really an export power in any meaningful sense. But even if that was true, you could make exact same argument with the US which directly competes with Europe on exports. Europeans have had absolutely no problem sticking their heads up American ass as far as possible.

              Meanwhile, everybody is free to run their internal economy the way they see fit. The whole premise of free markets and capitalism was efficiency. It was supposed to naturally outcompete planned economies like China. If the model isn’t actually working then Europe could acknowledge that and emulate what China is doing instead of whinging. Or accept that they have an inferior model of economic development.

              Finally, the EU very obviously doesn’t give a fuck about protecting its economy. If it did, it would’ve never allowed itself to become so dependent on energy imports from the US. The EU kept paying lip service to the idea of going green, but refused to invest into stuff like wind and solar because it came from China. Now the EU finds itself being bent over a barrel by Americans. And it’s frankly well deserved.

              • Lucius_Sweet@lemmy.world
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                3 days ago

                EU is not really an export power in any meaningful sense

                Are you sure buddy? The only powers who can compete with the EU by value are China and the USA. Come correct if you are going to bother at all.

                Every block is free to run their internal economy as they see fit but every other block is also free to set rules on what it determines to be illegal state aid. Sticking to the example of cars but this is also true for other Chinese industries, the whole point of the Chinese illegal state aid is to corner the international manufacturing market degrading competitors manufacturing ability before then increasing the price to profitable levels.

                Europe does not need to emulate China because China is not winning in any meaningful sense against Europe. China points to its impressive year on year GDP increases without acknowledging the low levels it started at. EU GDP per capita is still 3-4 times Chinese so even at their rapid rates of growth they will not come anywhere near EU levels in our lifetimes. This is before we even consider the difference in quality of life, Chinese workers regularly doing 996 schedules with the EU having a 40 hour workweek. The EU also has a better social safety net of unemployment, pension benefits, medical, worker legal protections, food safety, I could go on all day here.

                The EU dependency on Russia for energy could have been described as stupid, the current dependency on the USA is a direct result of this previous bad decision and will not be rectified overnight.

                he EU kept paying lip service to the idea of going green, but refused to invest into stuff like wind and solar because it came from China.

                What are you on about, the EU has purchased more than 50% of China’s exports of solar panels and wind turbines , with 98% of the EUs solar panel imports coming from China. When you need to make stuff up to back up your point it’s probably not a very good one.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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                  3 days ago

                  Yup, the EU is free to set rules that harm its own economy. Has been working out real great for y’all, like when you made the brilliant decision not to invest in solar and wind from China. And you keep using this word, illegal, I don’t think it means what you think it means.

                  LMFAO imagine thinking China is not winning against Europe. Last I checked China has basic things like energy and fertilizer that are out of reach of geniuses in Europe. And sure buddy, quality of life, tell me more about that https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-chinese-adult-now-richer-than-europeans-wealth-report-finds-2022-9

                  And yes, such amazing solar and wind build outs in EU, that they don’t even shift the needle now that Gulf energy is cut off.

                  • Lucius_Sweet@lemmy.world
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                    3 days ago

                    like when you made the brilliant decision not to invest in solar and wind from China.

                    Starting off your response with false information from your previous comment that I already disproved is an interesting choice mate. Over 50% of China’s solar and wind exports go to the EU and the EU sources 98% of its solar panels from China. Doesn’t fit your world view though does it?

                    And you keep using this word, illegal, I don’t think it means what you think it means.

                    Illegal state aid, as in state aid that is against EU laws, keep up buddy, not that complicated!

                    China is absolutely dependent on energy imports. One business insider article from 2022 that compares China to Europe, including regions like Turkey that are not in the EU. The Chinese median wealth is close to the lower end of EU countries like Poland and Romania and nowhere close to the higher end which are 10-15 times higher than China. You’re a great man for the misinformation, nice try though!

                    The world is a very different place now to 5 years ago. China has shown by backing Russia in the war against Ukraine that they are an enemy to the EU. Expect more trade walls to go up between EU/USA and China as we divert our trade away from China over the next few decades. China shouldn’t have bitten the hand that feeds it, the rabid wolf warriors need to sit down.

                • orc girly@lemmy.ml
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                  3 days ago

                  You’re very misinformed on worker rights on China and overlooking that Europe isn’t consistent in worker rights internally, the welfare and rights depend heavily on every state. You’re also pretending that a deindustrializing region is in any way comparable to the factory of the world with a straight face. Europe benefits greatly from past colonialism and current neocolonialism, so of course the GDP per capita will be high. Just wait for Africa and Latin America to become more sovereign and it will all crumble.

                  • Lucius_Sweet@lemmy.world
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                    3 days ago

                    You’re very misinformed on worker rights on China

                    Am I now? I don’t think so, next you will tell me that 996 isn’t a thing?

                    Europe isn’t consistent in worker rights internally

                    You tell me that I am misinformed about Chinese worker rights and you go and drop this gem straight after. It’s like you didn’t even know that there are EU worker rights that apply consistently across the whole EU. The basic rights in the EU are far higher than anything in China.

      • drastic133@lemmy.ml
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        4 days ago

        It is an important distinction though, because standing up to US might imply leaning towards China. But standing up to US and China, implies a third option: Europe need to huddle up together.

    • TiredTiger@lemmy.ml
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      4 days ago

      He should ask the last group of countries that strove to be neutral between the USA and a second large power how well that worked for them.