- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/7760707
“Death to Germany because they say their reason for existing is to support ‘Israel’[1]? That’s genocidal against Germans.”
Sorry, but I don’t care about your colonizer fragility.
Not a joke, they call this “Staatsräson”. ↩︎
Mocking left-wing nationalists since it doesn’t solve anything for those actually being oppressed (3rd world proletariat) and just promotes “blood and soil” type shit
National liberation from imperialism and colonialism is a good thing, actually.
Oh duh I should’ve realized!
As a Motor for liberation.
Nationalism must be abandoned and the national Elite is not allowed to be formed, be it bureaucratic or capitalist.
Otherwise it is just a vehicle from one oppression to the next.
Nationalism as a reaction to imperialism and colonialism is progressive, and aids the liberatory movement. Nationalism in the context of an imperialist country solidifies imperialism. Nationalism is not something that exists in the abstract, but instead is highly contextual.
Yes and therefore after the national liberation was achieved the context of Nationalism Changes drastically
Sure.
i think i’d clarify that there’s a difference between having a national identity and organizing a state around national supremacism. i want to live in a place where i am allowed to be Appalachian. i do not want to live in a place where Appalachian is a state promoted identity and other identities are excluded
There’s also a difference between the kinds of progressive nationalist movements like Algeria in kicking out the French, and creating a national supremacist state.
I’m still not sure I understand. Are you saying that it doesn’t help the third world proletariat for stolen land to be returned to them and for them to have self-determination? Would it not help Palestinians to have their land returned and have control of their own nation?
No it doesn’t help the proletariat, it only changes who the oppressor is and arguably only makes it easier and cheaper in the long run for foreign imperial powers to economically exploit them.
This article honestly sums it up better than I ever could and isn’t too long, I’d recommend giving it a read.
Also, national liberation would simply not work in Palestine - after all, do you really believe that if Palestinians came out furiously waving their flags one morning, it’d make Israel (which is another national liberation state btw) feel bad and stop their genocide and settling?
Congratulations you have the same take as the corrupt as fuck Palestinian authority
what do you propose that we give up and just let ourselves be killed to the point of extermination ??
I know this isn’t hexbear but This is Ramadan and I see this shit
No human language can describe the anger I am feeling right now.
I’m sorry you had to see this kind of garbage comment. Embarrassing that we have “leftists” willing to say things like this.
Thank you comrade
I genuinely wonder where people like this come from cause it’s like they were designed in lab specifically to piss you off
I am not talking about opposing China or Vietnam because for years most western communists opposed china and Maoists in China do oppose pretty much every country in the world including countries like Cuba
I am specifically referring to them sayings Israel is a “national liberation” state ??? and the nonsensical implication that the Palestinian Proletariat should unite wit the Israeli proletariat to overthrow their perspective bourgeoisie
not a single communist in either Palestine or Israel would tell you this because it’s dumb
it’s the equivalent of telling Black people during the civil rights protests that they shouldn’t fight against segregation and instead should unite with the white working class
lmao, I feel this way about them all the time too. It’s baffling the takes people come up with sometimes.
Yes, this notion died a hard and final death for obvious reasons when the communist party of “Israel” split over it, right?
TBH people are still having this kind of take today. It’s all just chauvinism of all kinds disguised as “leftism”, I think.
what??
I meant that people still have chauvinistic “this BLM stuff is distracting us from class struggle” types of takes even recently. They do it with all kinds of issues, I think it’s just class reductionism basically.
How fucking hard is it for a communist (basis of which is in “workers have no nation”, emancipation of international proletariat, abolishment of commodity production + markets + wage labor, etc and thus imperialism that necessitates its upkeep, and the abolishment of bourgeois state) to side with the international proletariat rather than a bourgeois state/movement to establish a bourgeois state?
And how did that turn out? Racial discrimination has been abolished, right?
Also if it makes things better for you, ML’s do piss me off too.
lmao fake Marxist
supporting segregation ??? pfft
Israeli communists do side with Palestinian ones (Do you really think in whaat is like 80 years that no has thought of that ??? seriously ???
too bad Most other Israelis are literally fascists who want to commit genocide
and for your information there is a Palestinian bourgeoisie and they support working with Israel to create “peace”
there’s pretty much zero way for a communist state to be created here without a Palestinian state being established first
it can’t be abolished
yes if classes were abolished it would definitely be much less but it’d still exist
Lenin supported the Irish uprising of 1916
I’m sorry, comrade.
thanks bro
Israel is a settler colonial state. That is the exact opposite of national liberation. What are you talking about?
national liberation does not only apply to anti-colonial movements
Okay, but that it still doesn’t apply to Isreal. Its a settler colonial state. They took the land from people who were already living there. How could you possibly call that “national liberation”?
So did the revolutions in Vietnam, or cuba, or north korea, or burkina faso, etc. not help the proletariat and just lead to “blood and soil type shit.” All of those involved colonized people taking back their land and involved elements of nationalism.
Can you name a time this happened?
self determination would solve many of our problems.
how? the people of the global south to my experiece see their role in the world to act as responsible parties to the land they are indigenous to. the people of the global north, be they 1st world or 2nd world, have invaded this land, don’t respect its laws, and have claimed it as their own. this is what is meant by stolen land. it’s not a blood and soil thing where the land belongs to the people via bloodright. it’s more accurate to say the people belong to the land, be that indigenous american relationships to turtle island or the concept in palestinian teaching that they are seeds.
i’m ready adjust my stance, but your notion that landback movements to return people to their stolen land and allow them to manage their society based on their relationship to the land being anti-left, or even fascist, strikes me as very odd at best, and possibly paternalistic at worst