I apologize if this has been asked a ton, still migrating to lemmy. Still stuck on crappy reddit out of habbit, but i’ve found the lemmy universe to be much more helpful.
Basically I’ve had a Dell Xps 13 9310 laptop for 4-5 years maybe? and I’ve put the thing through hell and back. Always (I believe) fixing it though and bringing it back to life. However, it seemed as if any linux distro i ever installed always had some sort of problems. I don’t know Linux well enough yet to be able to trouble shoot because it seems there’s many different routes to do it in Linux.
I’ve gone through so many distros and DEs and have tried everything on this thing. Well I think I finally bricked it after tinkering around with it. So I’m trying to plan a new budget setup.
I’ve always been a laptop guy because I love being able to lay on the couch by the TV and also have my laptop right there in front of me. I suppose im open to a small form or mini form desktop or box and just get a small display and a wireless keyboard/touchpad combo.
I just don’t know how to find what’s better compatible with linux. I see so much talk about “X” computers being great for Linux and to avoid “Y” computers because they dont work well with Linux (which I found out the newer Dells kinda suck. becoming more locked down and proprietary like Apple). I know there’s companys like Tuxedo or Pine or Pop Os that sell their specific Linux friendly devices, but those are all too expensive for me.
I’m looking for a machine that can easily handle Linux but also handle I guess a system or network, basically something strong enough to be a stable link in my entire network; if that makes sense. Because I have many plans for things I want to learn about and add to my network or system down the road. Also something durable and fairly user friendly.
The million dollar question(s)… how am I supposed to know which machines are better or even “compatible” with Linux? like all linux distros or flavors? I ran into a firmware/driver issue with my Dell and linux… they provided only a handful of drivers/firmware for ONLY Ubuntu 20.04. super limited and meant as a windows machine. As far as ram and storage, those are probably not pertinent and more of personal preference. But I guess it boils down to things like the cpu, gpu, ram, idk, whatever is important for Linux? any tips or advice is greatly appreciated. I want to finally take this serious and ensure I have the right equipment for what I want to do instead of falling for the newest, shiny things lol. Thanks
Lenovo/Thinkpad will certify certain models for use with Linux, other brands sell Linux laptops. Those are obviously good indicators that those models should be safe to choose. More generally, the more popular a model is, and the longer it’s been on the market the more likely they are to be compatible, just because they are in people’s hands and people tinker with them and add stuff to the Linux Kernel. So stay away from the latest model that is uncertified, and don’t choose the flashy, overpriced model that will see poor sales.
I second this. I got a Lenovo Thinkpad Carbon X1 for work after the Dell I had originally got straight up refused to sleep. I would put it to sleep manually, close the screen and when fully closed the screen would turn back on. Also, it refused to charge properly so I just left it plugged in 24/7. One day it became unplugged and then refused to turn on at all.
I’ve been running Fedora for about 2 years on it and the only issue I’ve had that I can’t fix is the fingerprint reader doesn’t work in SDDM/KDE for unlocking stuff. Fprintd recognizes it and I can enroll fingerprints, it just doesn’t work with KDE for some reason.
Yeah, unfortunately it looks like the reader on the X1 is a special case. Thankfully, this isn’t an issue with my Z13 - the reader itself worked out-of-the-box, just had to enroll my fingerprint from the Settings menu and then added fprintd to my pam.d rules.
I’ve tried everything I’ve found in the Arch Wiki but nothing seemed to work, oh well, it’s not a big deal all things considered.
The fingerprint reader on mine doesn’t work either. I’ve read up on solutions for that regards Debian but I haven’t tried any yet. I have a yubikey and that works fine as an extra layer of login security.
I wanted the fingerprint reader to work just because it’s easier than typing a password, using something like a YubiKey is the complete opposite unless you keep it plugged into the device 24/7, and then it really no longer serves its original purpose.
I have a lenovo thinkbook (cheapy thinkpad) for work with AMD chip and gpu. It wasn’t one of their models certified for linux but everything runs flawlessly for a lean debian build for me. I’ve had linux on several laptops and this is my second machine with AMD chips, and I’ll say that what you hear is true; There are way more, and better, drivers available for AMD if you go with linux.
My 2 cents.
Wonderful to know! thanks alot. I have heard alot of good about linux and thinkpads but only up to a certain generation I think? What about HP? my computer repair guy swears by HP but I honestly know nothing about HP and never hear people talk about HP either.
HP consumer products are literal garbage. The only good thing that comes out of HP is their commercial server equipment.
Lenovo won’t let you down for Linux. I’ve run Linux on thinkpads for years, multiple generations. I used to work at IBM, so I had em for work. Rock solid machines, I still run with them today (just the newer generations).
What about HP business grade stuff? thats what ive heard good about. Also any idea on other IBM equipment than their old thinkpads? I have no clue about nowaday IBM but am curious.
IBM doesn’t do consumer stuff anymore they sold the entire side of that business to Lenovo.
HP Business stuff is pretty good but it’s gonna run you a pretty penny.
Avoid NVidia graphics and Broadcom WiFi.
Thanks, didn’t know about the Broadcom wifi part.
The 2060 in my Lenovo legion seems to work pretty well
Wifi is usually easy and cheap to swap in case thats the only thing that bothers you with a laptop
It may be modular, but many OEMs have the BIOS block out any other component you put in there. Neat, huh?
I’ll assume that was meant to be WiFi. It’s indeed one of the few components that’s easy to swap (a new one is about 30€), as long as it’s accessible (it usually is).
Fucking Broadcom wifi 😤
Same. The moment I got a card with Wifi from Intel, it was so much better.
For near-guaranteed compatibility, there are dedicated manufacturers like System76 and Tuxedo. Framework also claims Linux compatibility but for set tested distros (Ubuntu and Fedora).
Generally, anything with Intel/AMD graphics and Intel Wifi is pretty much guaranteed to work in my experience. For laptops, high-DPI displays can be problematic but the fixes are on Wayland which is getting higher priority now.
ahh i think my dell xps 13 has a higher DPI and I always run Xorg or X11 or whatever it’s called
As a genera rule avoid Nvidia. Also google the fingerprint sensor and wifi model before buying. General advice like “Thinkpads are fully linux compatible” is rubbish. Take your time to Google all idiosyncrasies of your desired model.
Im just most concerned about it being linux user friendly and fairly durable, as I tend to mess things up and wipe my drive sorts often lol hey, i’m learning! don’t game so don’t need Nvidia, check. don’t need a fingerprint sensor, check. so what is it that actually makes linux more compatible with some computers but not others? does it boil down to the cpu???
Focus on what you’re going to use the laptop for and choose your hardware accordinly. Linux will work great as long as your hardware is not unsupported. So don’t worry about that at all.
I just collect junk from my friends and install Linux on them, lol, you get what you get and make it work
It’s just that my model is a newer generation Dell and I’ve heard from multiple people that Dell is getting more and more locked down and proprietary like Apple, so im thinking that’s why I haven’t had the best linux experience on this darn thing.
Have tried openSuse together with the community repo “packman”? OpenSuse was best distro with compatible driver yet.
On the other hand… https://threads.ruin.io/comment/247004 https://lemmy.ml/post/35749
yes Ive heard they are good too, but i’ve been having issues with mine. it came with windows pre-installed, i doubt that plays much of a role but Idk. like the system is naturally fitted for windows only, so the linux experience has been a little rough around the edges. I have no clue, just a thought maybe
Check out framework laptops
Thanks, will check out
AMD or Intel Graphics. Intel networking, Atheros, or a chipset that is known to be friendly with Linux.
CPU support is fairly diverse.
Sound is fairly well supported but with some devices can be a surprise, as are touchpads. Touchscreen and webcams are generally a bit more dubious.
With desktops, I very rarely have issues but it’s also easier to pick my own hardware. For laptops, I usually don’t buy something that’s new to market unless the component models are known to work. If it’s been around for a bit I can usually Google comments by somebody else who’s got one and tried to run Linux on it.
I think your best bet is Framework laptops. If not, ThinkPads have superior Linux support.
Otherwise, pick your favorite model and read online. Also see if you can find your preferred model on Arch Wiki (laptop page).
Myself some time ago I’ve purchased Asus laptop. Spent quite some time (hobby) to get everything working (e.g. fan control) and documented everything in Arch Wiki.
Then I’ve got Asus Zenbook. Also had to participate in kernel bug report and test, because there were no audio. Eventually it got fixed in upstream and started to work.
Then I’ve got MSI gaming laptop. Had to participate in Intel DRM code issue, because 2K 240Hz panel was limited to 2K60Hz mode and eventually it got fixed too in upstream. Few workarounds are there and there, but eventually got it to work almost 100%, but audio is a bit…broken. Works fine, just first few secs after silence are silent.
Basically what I am trying to tell - manufacturers might introduce software-controlled hardware features that might work only in Windows. It requires experience and extensive knowledge to make everything manageable on Linux. :)
A warning about Framework, they’re on the bleeding edge of modular laptop design (not hardware). So while they may shift laptop design entirely, the bleeding edge always cuts. I don’t know anyone with a Framework laptop and if you’re the first person you know IRL to have one be prepared for unexpected issues. I really hope the idea takes off but I don’t envy the first adopters.
Fully agree. Even though OP mentioned it, I personally find that the prices compared to others (Dell, Lenovo Thinkpads) way more affordable.
I usually go for business level dells, like latitudes. They’re the go-to for corporations so they’re usually pretty well supported simply because they’re so common
I have also heard this sentiment, that enterprise/business level hardware is best, even for personal use
Do you mean like System76?
What the heck is System76??? I see it everywhere but only affiliated with Pop OS
They make computers designed for linux, Pop OS is their default operating system for the computers they make
Gotcha! I browsed their site a bit. I’d have to check ebay because I cannot afford the prices on their new stuff lol. I have a question that maybe you can answer. alot of folks recommend older laptops or whatever for linux. Does age of the computer matter much? I know you can always make upgrades to the internals and such, but say I got an old thinkpad for example maybe from 2010… and it’s certified linux compatible and all that… would i be able to run the latest versions of distros or would i be limited to older kernels due to the system being old? or is all of that determined by the hardware specs?
You don’t need certified Linux hardware to use Linux, and hardware is supported for a really long time once it’s there.
So you don’t have to worry about using latest distros, you should always welcome every update, they fix and add new things (unless it’s Ubuntu, screw them). And if you have new unsupported hardware, it will usually be supported in the next kernel release.
Meaning if you go with usual x86 CPU, Linux won’t have issues with almost anything that comes with it.
You basically already know the drill; buy it from a Linux-first vendor that offers devices that you can afford. A list of vendors can be found here. Personally, I’m quite fond of NovaCustom and Star Labs. Fortunately, both have ‘cheaper’ offerings with their NJ50 Series and StarLite respectively.
Thanks! but when it comes to linux hardware vendors like those, for me at least, it’s hard to know which ones are good and which ones are bad or unknowns. also, i did look into the lower grade star labs and there was something about the processors they used… i did a little reading and they got poor marks for being uber slow or something. i could have misinterpreted things though.
but when it comes to linux hardware vendors like those, for me at least, it’s hard to know which ones are good and which ones are bad or unknowns.
You hit the nail on the head with that remark. Because, quite frankly, it’s hard for all of us; I would love to read reviews done by Notebookcheck (or similarly high-profile reviewers), unfortunately that’s simply not the case. In this case, you would have to scrape whatever knowledge you can find about these specific devices (and their vendors) before judging for yourself if it’s worth taking the risk.
The reason, why I’m personally fond of NovaCustom and Star Labs, is because they’re known to contribute back significantly to the open-source community; same applies to System76, Purism and Tuxedo. I didn’t name any these in my previous post, because none of them seemed to be sufficiently affordable.
i did look into the lower grade star labs and there was something about the processors they used… i did a little reading and they got poor marks for being uber slow or something. i could have misinterpreted things though.
If it’s about the processor being slow, then I’m not surprised. It’s from Intel’s N-series, which is somewhat of a spiritual successor to Intel’s Celeron and Pentium lines. Both of which are known to be not powerful. And for that price you shouldn’t expect a lot more, but I agree that an i3 (or something else with similar processing power) should have been possible at that price-range.
Yup, N series
In general its not about the CPU or GPU. Even Nvidia works kinda okay on some Devices, at least according to Nick from TheLinuxExperiment. Some apps like Davinciresolve require it, and cuda is also only supported on Nvidia. Mobile AMD graphics are kinda underpowered for some tasks.
Its more about weird hardware that isnt supported, Fingerprint readers, even keyboards going into some weird hibernation and you need to hard reset the PC as you cant control it anymore (Acer swift). Some devices like Microsoft Surfaces need a custom kernel.
Lots ot refurbished business laptops like the Lenovo T series, HP or Dell business series works well, as they also dont have weird components.
Check linux-hardware.org and if you have a running laptop, install their HWprobe and run it, to share that your laptop is working. With comments you can add what is really working etc.
Personally I would also care about Coreboot. Checkout Novacuston (EU) or System76 or Starlabs, they have Coreboot laptops. I mean, installing Linux on some laptop with a proprietary garbage Bios that doesnt get updates (!!!) anymore is pretty hypocritical. Coreboot is awesome but rare, its awesome that there are some companies and people making it run on new hardware, so I would check those out.
And… maybe dont get an M1 Macbook ;D
good advice, thank you! oh ok, so since im on a budget and i’ll likely be buying refurbed or used, it’ll likely be an older machine. would older computers but from the good companies mentioned still be capable of running newer versions/kernels of distros?
Welcome to Linux! Every hardware runs everything. Its not Mac or Android. Old Devices work always, as the drivers already exist. Only reeeally old stuff gets thrown out of the kernel.
Thinkpad T430’s have a pretty high price on Ebay currently, I have one and its a great laptop, nice keyboard, Coreboot/Heads/Libreboot/1vyrain custom BIOS all run. But it is a really old Laptop.
Bought a Clevo MZ41 on Ebay, will attempt to flash coreboot. Was not pricey too.
Try Thinkpads, Dell, Hp. Normally older Acer or Asus too. If you find a laptop with
- good 1080p display
- good keyboard in your language/ you dont care about stickers
- good battery life
- everything normal broken, not completely old
Just search for “Linux MODEL” and you will probably find some reports.
For new hardware you want a recent Distro, Fedora (try Kinoite! ublue.it), OpenSuse Tumbleweed (try Kalpa) or EndeavorOS for easy Arch, are all good. Maybe avoid ubuntu, or use something like PopOS or TuxedoOS, which are better versions of Ubuntu, with newer packages and less annoying crap like Snap.
I am not sure if you already use Linux, but some general tips:
- try to use Flatpaks from Flathub as much as possible. They are already often officially supported and have less bugs. Also the apps are isolated from your system, so they are more up to date, dont break your system, keep system upgrades small, and they have privacy advantages
- use a Distro that supports Wayland very well. X11 is stupidly old and will be completely unsupported in a few years. Its already dead since a few years, as nothing changes.
- try an “immutable”, image based Distribution like Fedora Atomic (Kinoite (KDE), Silverblue (Gnome)) or Opensuse Kalpa (KDE) or Aeon (Gnome). They are simply modern, stable, resettable and your changes are transparent.
- if you want to do any crazy stuff like code, install apps with many dependencies, do it in a Distrobox. You can install apps normally, but they are still not bloating your system. If you dont need them, delete the Distrobox and your system is clean again. This goes especially for strange University etc. software that needs to be installed with some script or something.
- use a root Distrobox if you need things like USB
- use fish as your normal shell, simply by editing the Terminals “open command”. That way your shell in the Distroboxes has a different configuration, fish looks nice and colorful and has stuff like autocompletion.
- do backups of your system and your data. Just do that always, on an extra drive. It saves so much horror of losing everything, if a drive breaks or your laptop gets stolen or whatever. If you want Cloud backups, use Cryptomator and any cloud you want.
- use Syncthing, maybe disable global discovery for LAN only, for syncing your data between two or more specific devices.
- use soundbound, SoundCloud Downloader (Firefox Addon) and youtube downloaders as long as they work. Download all of your music to not be dependend on those companies
- try waydroid for Android apps on Linux. Use F-Droid basic as the application store, and check for “list of f-droid repositories” and add some.
Wow, I truly appreciate this response. So i’ve been using Linux for a decade and know a “fair” amount, never made it a goal to learn the ins and outs, though I am now. So I hear business laptops make great linux machines. My main question is, most of the computers within my budget that are “known” to be decent linux machines are very old. Are they capable of still keeping up with all the newest and latest versions of distros? or are you stuck on older models just because the nature of the device being older?
No XD again, every hardware runs every distro.
Rule of thumb, avoid intel generations younger than 7-8 and avoid i3, on AMD I am not sure but probably the same. Avoid weird cheap brands you never heard, chances are huge that nobody cared to support every hardware piece of them.
Best are noname OEMs like Tongfang and Clevo, if you get those, chances are very good and they are cheaper.
Also a little reminder from debloating a Windows “Gaming laptop” today. Windows doesnt support shit, its the manufacturers making the hardware work by bloating the system with horrible software.
wait a sec, kinda contradicting here. you said to avoid weird cheap brands but then you told me to buy weird cheap brands… lol sorry im confused
No, these OEMs are noname but not cheap. They are noname because they produce PCs sold under different Brand names. Many Linux Laptops use Tongfang or Clevo hardware, put some branding on there and custom parts and thats it.
Aha I see! thanks for the info. I think i’m going thinkpad though, just gotta decide which model. they are incredibly cheap! especially for what you get
Generally it doesnt really matter but if you can it’s best to avoid using nvidia gpus although they will work under Linux they don’t have as good support doesn’t mean you can’t use a nvidia gpu under linux if you want or have to I mean I’ve got a nvidia gpu in my gaming laptop and while it’s a pain to setup it works somewhat well for gaming
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I’ve been using nVidia cards on laptops with Ubuntu much exclusively for ~15 years . Only problem I’ve ever had was once when I accidentally uninstalled something using apt-get and it took the nvidia drivers with it (because I’m was stupid).
Oh no, I couldn’t care less about graphics, but at the same time I don’t want a potato lol so no Nvidia for me
You’ll be fine just get whatever has best price to performance nvidia intel or amd generally amd gpus are best for linux because of there driver support
but its still shit a good exanple of this is the r7 370s last drivers being made in 2015Honestly people over do it with the Nvidia complaints.
Nvidia provides a rock solid driver for Linux. If you are a general consumer it works really really well and it’s easy to install.
Here’s the actual historical issue people have with Nvidia on Linux: it’s a closed source binary which is contradictory to the ethos of Linux.
But he’s the rub, Nvidia open sourced some shit this year, not all of it, but they’re becoming more open about the GPU drivers. But shitting on Nvidia is a hard habit to break lol
Use a system76 laptop for work. Came with popos and works like a charm.
I oughtta browse ebay and see if anybody’s selling some system76 stuff. I gotta see what to do with my Dell Xps 13 9310 thats stuck in manufacturing mode first. probably sell for parts or idk?
