“Leftism” is an umbrella term that encapsulates dozens of ideologies. “Leftist infighting” is a result of these groups wanting different things as they explicitly have different goals.
A communist and an anarchist doing “infighting” is largely a result of them having completely different goals, not CIA mind-control.
The CIA narrative you’re referring to pertains largely to socialist organization specifically.
Yankistanis on their capitalists raining in on societal failures causing division:
Chinese 50 cent army, Russian Bot farms, Tankies. Russian Trolls. We see you, comrade. They’re trying to divide us. Reeeeee
Yankistanis when a recorded history of CIA interference, coup, embargo, wars, propaganda where most yankistanis shrieks at the mention of the words and country trying a different economic system:
It’s both. Popular fronts are a thing, and Spanish Republican style coalitions are incredibly powerful tools. Political pluralism within leftist movements is healthy when we let it be healthy. The CIA, FBI, and various governments and reactionary groups have engaged in psyops against this for decades.
But these divisions are real and they come from real ideological differences and hurt. The CIA didn’t force the red army to fire on the black armies, it didn’t force the blunder of ideology at Kronstadt, it didn’t force the betrayal in Spain. And it also didn’t force anarchists to have issues controlling their people or implementing their goals. It didn’t force the syndicalists to fuck up in South America and Berlin. And it didn’t force the USSR and CCP to nearly go to war with each other.
What they did do however is project Gladius, COINTELPRO, operation condor, and various other anti left programs. They made damn sure Fred Hampton died and they made sure the Black Panthers couldn’t trust each other enough to be effective. They also made sure the inner cities were filled with crack to destroy black anti capitalist organizing.
And here’s where you get the mix. Anarchists already don’t trust MLs, because of the aforementioned betrayals and disorganization, then you get government campaigns working to ensure that trust remains broken and that the culture becomes one in which cooperation is anathema. And the trots are kept distrustful of the MLs and the anarchists. MLs are encouraged to keep thinking of themselves as the only real socialists except MLMs. It’s similar to the Russian campaigns between democrats and republicans, both already didn’t like each other and the goal is to keep picking at the wounds and encouraging off putting behaviors.
Speaking at least in the context of the US, any revolutionary minded leftists (or “leftists”, if you prefer) have goals that diverge so far from the present day as to be irrelevant.
Right but it isn’t that easy. MLs and Trotskyists were taught things a certain way, a way that developed contrary to each other. Trotskyists and anarchists were purged ruthlessly and that has an effect on our politics. It would be nice to just dispense with it, but its not that easy. As long as people learn organizing from more experienced organizers, we will carry baggage from the past into the future. It takes an enormous amount of work and reflection to overcome, and I argue that most leftists regardless of ideology lack the tools that are needed, because many of us also carry the baggage of philosophical liberalism by default, either we don’t know how it affects us or when we do know we act contrary to it, which is still a source of heavy influence.
This isn’t being doomer about it, the solution is praxis, but the problems caused by history do actually exist, and have to be reckoned with
An easy thing we can all do, is refrain from sniping at one another online. I don’t mean serious discussion in good faith, but throwing barbs and shit.
“Leftism” is an umbrella term that encapsulates dozens of ideologies. “Leftist infighting” is a result of these groups wanting different things as they explicitly have different goals.
A communist and an anarchist doing “infighting” is largely a result of them having completely different goals, not CIA mind-control.
The CIA narrative you’re referring to pertains largely to socialist organization specifically.
My general observation:
Yankistanis on their capitalists raining in on societal failures causing division:
Yankistanis when a recorded history of CIA interference, coup, embargo, wars, propaganda where most yankistanis shrieks at the mention of the words and country trying a different economic system:
How can you be certain either way?
It’s both. Popular fronts are a thing, and Spanish Republican style coalitions are incredibly powerful tools. Political pluralism within leftist movements is healthy when we let it be healthy. The CIA, FBI, and various governments and reactionary groups have engaged in psyops against this for decades.
But these divisions are real and they come from real ideological differences and hurt. The CIA didn’t force the red army to fire on the black armies, it didn’t force the blunder of ideology at Kronstadt, it didn’t force the betrayal in Spain. And it also didn’t force anarchists to have issues controlling their people or implementing their goals. It didn’t force the syndicalists to fuck up in South America and Berlin. And it didn’t force the USSR and CCP to nearly go to war with each other.
What they did do however is project Gladius, COINTELPRO, operation condor, and various other anti left programs. They made damn sure Fred Hampton died and they made sure the Black Panthers couldn’t trust each other enough to be effective. They also made sure the inner cities were filled with crack to destroy black anti capitalist organizing.
And here’s where you get the mix. Anarchists already don’t trust MLs, because of the aforementioned betrayals and disorganization, then you get government campaigns working to ensure that trust remains broken and that the culture becomes one in which cooperation is anathema. And the trots are kept distrustful of the MLs and the anarchists. MLs are encouraged to keep thinking of themselves as the only real socialists except MLMs. It’s similar to the Russian campaigns between democrats and republicans, both already didn’t like each other and the goal is to keep picking at the wounds and encouraging off putting behaviors.
Speaking at least in the context of the US, any revolutionary minded leftists (or “leftists”, if you prefer) have goals that diverge so far from the present day as to be irrelevant.
Right but it isn’t that easy. MLs and Trotskyists were taught things a certain way, a way that developed contrary to each other. Trotskyists and anarchists were purged ruthlessly and that has an effect on our politics. It would be nice to just dispense with it, but its not that easy. As long as people learn organizing from more experienced organizers, we will carry baggage from the past into the future. It takes an enormous amount of work and reflection to overcome, and I argue that most leftists regardless of ideology lack the tools that are needed, because many of us also carry the baggage of philosophical liberalism by default, either we don’t know how it affects us or when we do know we act contrary to it, which is still a source of heavy influence.
This isn’t being doomer about it, the solution is praxis, but the problems caused by history do actually exist, and have to be reckoned with
An easy thing we can all do, is refrain from sniping at one another online. I don’t mean serious discussion in good faith, but throwing barbs and shit.
I wish.