The far left can’t agree because most of it is not found in functional rationality. At least the right is too stupid to think and thus can actually achieve things 🙈
No we don’t. The CIA and FBI intentionally created this culture in leftist movements, why do we need to debate and reach consensus on everything?
We can just stop infighting, shut up about praxis and labels, and march together until we differ. It would leave us in a better place to go even further, however we might envision it
Healthcare, lower rents, higher pay, workers rights, tax the rich. Just get on the bus, you can get off whenever you like but we can’t all hold up the bus driver
I don’t think it’s a psyop. Leftism as an ideology values diversity and reconciling a diversity of views and life experiences is hard. The only bus fit to leave is intersectionalist. If it’s not, you’re asking people to get on a bus where you’re better off but they aren’t.
No, I mean this is a well documented thing that happened… They literally infiltrated leftist groups and would sow division and call for endless votes and debates on banal issues
I am talking about intersectionality, but I don’t think we should use that word. It’s big and scares the common idiot. Also it has implications about being idpol, which is thoroughly tainted at this point
I’m not saying you have to give ground… I’m talking about focus on good messaging. You don’t have to throw trans people or Palestinians under the bus. You don’t have to hide your positions or be apologetic either
But we all need to focus on message discipline. We need to be evangelical. Houses. Healthcare. Food. Wages. Tax the rich. Fix our democracy
Basically everyone agrees on the real issues, and we must be as Mumdani. He doesn’t back down, he’s totally unapologetic about his stances, but he doesn’t get distracted
Tight, focused messaging. Universal problems, simple to understand solutions. No pamphlets, no scary words
I still think it’s a genuinely harder coordination problem to solve compared to rallying around conservative ideals and that it’s not solely due to CIA and FBI interference. But I upvoted you and I agree with a lot of what you’re saying.
I do agree with that, fascism is really easy to organize… Granted it always has a shelf life for the same underlying reasons
But conservatism more broadly? It only feels that way because there’s been a concentrated effort for a century to propagandize people. Liberals gave so much ground that cutting social programs and public private partnerships became the default position for both parties. There’s so many lies that go uncontested… Some of the myths commonly believed about capitalism and government are insane, and that isn’t an accident
In the days of FDR it was really easy to organize for progressives… The momentum was there. People’s lives were improving noticeably, they had hope for the future, and they had confidence in the leadership
Political momentum is the key. The pendulum is shifting quickly left, so it’s becoming easier to organize on the left than it’s been for generations. It’ll get even easier if the promises are delivered on, disenfranchised voters will need less and less convincing to mobilize
I’m a leftist. If capitalism was destroyed I would love to debate and implement different economic and state systems as we work to improve the lives of all people.
But, having said that, we don’t live in a world without capitalism yet. So I will support any form of resistance of a people to Imperialist powers and capitalist interest. Unfortunately, we can’t put on a red hat and just support the guys with the red hats. It’s why I can support certain actions of groups and states ranging from Hamas to DPRK to even parts of the EU (but never never NATO).
This is why when there is “leftist infighting” I will almost always support the ML faction over any DemSocs or anarchist. Why? Because ML methods of resistance have been the only successful methods of resisting imperial occupation and influence that has been sustainable. If an anarchist faction destroys the state and is somehow able to defend itself from imperialist powers I’ll support that too. But we have Cuba today; we have the DPRK today. Are they the types of states I want to exist? No. But they do exist.
If another means of imperial resistance proves more effective than I will adjust my opinions and support. If your a leftist and not acknowledging the success of ML factions you’re not really a leftist. Especially if you spend all your time fighting with “tankies”. And if you’re a ML and not willing to adjust to changes in successful resistance (especially as the empire is shaking as it is now) than you’re not really a leftist but in a cult.
Okay, well I disagree on the effectiveness of ML methods, they industrialized quickly but easily fell to corruption and ended up falling to capitalism
But do we really need to debate that? I’d love to build something better than capitalism, but a glorious revolution isn’t on the table.
In the mean time, I totally agree.
I bet we’d agree with everything possible to do right now. I think imperialism is bad, but I’m worried about the future for my friends and family. I’m worried about my neighbors, about my country, about human rights violations against my countrymen
But I’m not going to live or die on stopping imperialism or on Palestine - we have to fix our county so we even have the ability to resist the forces of capital at home if we ever want to reign it in globally
I don’t think we should sacrifice these issues either, but I don’t think we have to… I just think we have to focus on that can be done now. We’re not going to unwind the World Bank and the IMF to get the global south off the debt treadmill tomorrow
We could overturn citizens united and start trust busting tomorrow if we fix healthcare today. If we fix housing, and food availability. If we bring back social programs
The empire is collapsing. I think that’s set in stone.
But Rome never truly fell, the people woke up the next day. The question is, do we fall into a dark age as we wait for the contradictions of capitalism to make the economy go poof, or do we wind it down gently
I think we can make material conditions for people better, which means that when the music stops progressives will be in power and have the trust of the people
And we can argue about how to build something better then. The next steps are the same
If you believe in ML or aspects of it, fine. I don’t care if you’re a full on tankie. You can be a militant vegan or radical environmentalist too.
But when progressives march, we all have to set down (not give ground on) our single issues to join them. Because they’re the movement marching against capital right now under a banner that we can all fit under without compromising any of our goals or ideals
I wish. The world would be a much better place if the left could agree until we differ
The far left can’t agree because most of it is not found in functional rationality. At least the right is too stupid to think and thus can actually achieve things 🙈
The left has to rally around all sorts of nuances to reach agreement. The right basically just has one thing: fear.
And racism.
Yes but that’s fear-based
No we don’t. The CIA and FBI intentionally created this culture in leftist movements, why do we need to debate and reach consensus on everything?
We can just stop infighting, shut up about praxis and labels, and march together until we differ. It would leave us in a better place to go even further, however we might envision it
Healthcare, lower rents, higher pay, workers rights, tax the rich. Just get on the bus, you can get off whenever you like but we can’t all hold up the bus driver
I don’t think it’s a psyop. Leftism as an ideology values diversity and reconciling a diversity of views and life experiences is hard. The only bus fit to leave is intersectionalist. If it’s not, you’re asking people to get on a bus where you’re better off but they aren’t.
No, I mean this is a well documented thing that happened… They literally infiltrated leftist groups and would sow division and call for endless votes and debates on banal issues
I am talking about intersectionality, but I don’t think we should use that word. It’s big and scares the common idiot. Also it has implications about being idpol, which is thoroughly tainted at this point
I’m not saying you have to give ground… I’m talking about focus on good messaging. You don’t have to throw trans people or Palestinians under the bus. You don’t have to hide your positions or be apologetic either
But we all need to focus on message discipline. We need to be evangelical. Houses. Healthcare. Food. Wages. Tax the rich. Fix our democracy
Basically everyone agrees on the real issues, and we must be as Mumdani. He doesn’t back down, he’s totally unapologetic about his stances, but he doesn’t get distracted
Tight, focused messaging. Universal problems, simple to understand solutions. No pamphlets, no scary words
FYI. the man is named Mamdani.
I still think it’s a genuinely harder coordination problem to solve compared to rallying around conservative ideals and that it’s not solely due to CIA and FBI interference. But I upvoted you and I agree with a lot of what you’re saying.
I do agree with that, fascism is really easy to organize… Granted it always has a shelf life for the same underlying reasons
But conservatism more broadly? It only feels that way because there’s been a concentrated effort for a century to propagandize people. Liberals gave so much ground that cutting social programs and public private partnerships became the default position for both parties. There’s so many lies that go uncontested… Some of the myths commonly believed about capitalism and government are insane, and that isn’t an accident
In the days of FDR it was really easy to organize for progressives… The momentum was there. People’s lives were improving noticeably, they had hope for the future, and they had confidence in the leadership
Political momentum is the key. The pendulum is shifting quickly left, so it’s becoming easier to organize on the left than it’s been for generations. It’ll get even easier if the promises are delivered on, disenfranchised voters will need less and less convincing to mobilize
Of course it would but see only my ideology gets that!
The problem is Trotskyists and Marxist-Leninists and anarcho-communists and anarcho-syndicalists and …
/s
And don’t even get me started on the anarcho-engineers!
You leftists sure are a contentious people.
You just made an enemy, for life!
i’mma dip all your insoles in elmer’s glue!
Anarcho-carceralism the only valid ideology.
We must spontaneously organize maximally restrictive non-hierarchal prisons and maintain/enforce them in a vicious but egalitarian manner.
Not to be confused with anarcho-carcinization, where we non-hierarchally organize society into a crab
I’ve yet to meet another one but you’re probably right lol
Hi I’m one of those. Can confirm I’m absolutely dreadful 😆🏴🏴🏴
I’m a leftist. If capitalism was destroyed I would love to debate and implement different economic and state systems as we work to improve the lives of all people.
But, having said that, we don’t live in a world without capitalism yet. So I will support any form of resistance of a people to Imperialist powers and capitalist interest. Unfortunately, we can’t put on a red hat and just support the guys with the red hats. It’s why I can support certain actions of groups and states ranging from Hamas to DPRK to even parts of the EU (but never never NATO).
This is why when there is “leftist infighting” I will almost always support the ML faction over any DemSocs or anarchist. Why? Because ML methods of resistance have been the only successful methods of resisting imperial occupation and influence that has been sustainable. If an anarchist faction destroys the state and is somehow able to defend itself from imperialist powers I’ll support that too. But we have Cuba today; we have the DPRK today. Are they the types of states I want to exist? No. But they do exist.
If another means of imperial resistance proves more effective than I will adjust my opinions and support. If your a leftist and not acknowledging the success of ML factions you’re not really a leftist. Especially if you spend all your time fighting with “tankies”. And if you’re a ML and not willing to adjust to changes in successful resistance (especially as the empire is shaking as it is now) than you’re not really a leftist but in a cult.
Okay, well I disagree on the effectiveness of ML methods, they industrialized quickly but easily fell to corruption and ended up falling to capitalism
But do we really need to debate that? I’d love to build something better than capitalism, but a glorious revolution isn’t on the table.
In the mean time, I totally agree.
I bet we’d agree with everything possible to do right now. I think imperialism is bad, but I’m worried about the future for my friends and family. I’m worried about my neighbors, about my country, about human rights violations against my countrymen
But I’m not going to live or die on stopping imperialism or on Palestine - we have to fix our county so we even have the ability to resist the forces of capital at home if we ever want to reign it in globally
I don’t think we should sacrifice these issues either, but I don’t think we have to… I just think we have to focus on that can be done now. We’re not going to unwind the World Bank and the IMF to get the global south off the debt treadmill tomorrow
We could overturn citizens united and start trust busting tomorrow if we fix healthcare today. If we fix housing, and food availability. If we bring back social programs
The empire is collapsing. I think that’s set in stone.
But Rome never truly fell, the people woke up the next day. The question is, do we fall into a dark age as we wait for the contradictions of capitalism to make the economy go poof, or do we wind it down gently
I think we can make material conditions for people better, which means that when the music stops progressives will be in power and have the trust of the people
And we can argue about how to build something better then. The next steps are the same
If you believe in ML or aspects of it, fine. I don’t care if you’re a full on tankie. You can be a militant vegan or radical environmentalist too.
But when progressives march, we all have to set down (not give ground on) our single issues to join them. Because they’re the movement marching against capital right now under a banner that we can all fit under without compromising any of our goals or ideals
Well put
Without mentioning they are the biggest polluters in the world. The USSR did so much damage that it’s still the top in some pollution statistics.
ML is a destroyer of worlds.