• PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de
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    3 hours ago

    Okay I would just upvote and move on, but you’re clearly baiting with that title so if it’s alright with you let’s have some banter :P

    If I say that

    • the meme is on point
    • material conditions in China are to some extent better than the US
    • the US is definitely worse to its own people and the world
    • I’m staunchly anti-capitalist

    but I also say that I still don’t like the Chinese state because I don’t consider that (and ML in general) a form of worker-owned means of production (whether or not you agree)

    Am I a “lib”?

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      4 hours ago

      Kinda? What do you think socialism looks like, if not the PRC? What about the PRC makes it not “genuine worker control,” or more broadly, Marxism-Leninism not “genuine worker control?”

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          4 hours ago

          They are, though. China is a democratic country, and public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy. Polling shows genuine democracy:

          What would worker control have to look like for you to accept it?

          • TheJesusaurus@sh.itjust.works
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            4 hours ago

            You can’t possibly think China is a democracy for real?

            It’s literally a 1 party authoritarian state with a president for life

            • Horse {they/them}@lemmygrad.ml
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              1 hour ago

              You can’t possibly think China is a democracy for real?

              yes we can, because we have actually studied the political structure of china

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              3 hours ago

              The PRC isn’t a western liberal faux-democracy, no, but it is a comprehensive unitary socialist democracy. Policy is usually pushed from the bottom-up, and there is comprehensive levels of provincial, regional, and national democracy. They abolished term limits for the presidential position, but that doesn’t mean “president for life,” Xi can be taken down democratically. It’s unlikely, though, considering he enjoys over 90% support.

              As for being “authoritarian,” all states are. The difference with China is that the working class is in control of the state, rather than the capitalist class like in western countries.

    • KuroiKaze@lemmy.world
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      5 hours ago

      I’ve been to China plenty, they def aren’t living like this lol. Who believes this shit.

      • 🇵🇸antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml
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        54 minutes ago

        That’s funny because literally China is one of the countries with the highest approval of their government by independent studies.

        So even if you’re telling the truth the vast majority of the Chinese people disagree with your sentiment.