Sept. 30 (UPI) – Elon Musk is under fire after publicly backing a far-right political party in Germany, suggesting the current government should not be re-elected over its position on the current migrant crisis in Europe.

  • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Russia, China and the Republicans have been propping European far right parties for the past x decades, and now the recessions and the wars are generating easy support for the populists

    • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      USA, Ukraine, Israel, Italy and certain NATO countries have been propping up far right culture across the world. Russia and China are just boogeymen for useful idiots to scream about.

      Far right factions in USA support Russia only because of the anti-LGBT social alignment, and not because Russia’s politics is far right. Russia is pretty much in alignment with socialist goals geopolitically and inside their country on the social axis (ban on Nazi elements).

          • “Nazi Winnie the Pooh banned in Russia”

            Yes, seems that they’re taking it very seriously and not just calling shit they don’t like “Nazi”. Considering this is the country that cheers on the Wagner-group, a neonazi extremist mercenary group led by open fascists and literally named after Hitler’s favourite composer (as stated by Wagner’s founder), I’m sure that they’re taking the fight against Nazism very seriously and won’t ever abuse it for propaganda reasons.

            • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              I am sure that your username is not a parody, and that you have taken things into account like:

              • “western expansion” of NATO and disregard for Russia’s national security
              • NATO breaking Warsaw Pact in 90s
              • US ex-VP Dick Cheney stating NATO’s goals are to balkanise Russia
              • how CIA implanted a colour revolution in the form of 2003 Orange protests in Ukraine
              • then in 2013 with Euromaidan CIA coup
              • the leaked Nuland-Pyatt call
              • the famous lecture by Chicago University’s John Mearsheimer
              • the murder of over 14,000 people in Donbass from 2014 upto 2022 start of conflict

              and so on.

              People like you are the same brainwormed zombies that scream “doing X thing means same, moral and intent do not matter”.

      • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Italy and Ukraine are on the receiving side of the propping. Israel is a good mention but probably a lesser participant than the big three (the US does most of the dirty work for them).

        In addition to supporting culturally reactionary and discriminatory governments, the far right fawns over the totalitarian strong-man geopolitics.

        And as it is known, it’s convenient for Russia to build fascist-aligned support in their targets to have a casus belli for their internal audience. All while following fascist doctrines themselves

        • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Ukraine literally has a far right Nazi government and far right Nazi troops. Zelensky worships and salutes historical Nazi people both in Ukraine and recently with Canada in UN. Italy elected a neofascist party in power. They are on the giver side, not receiver side.

          Russia’s goals are in line with USSR, which, if history serves me correctly, was the opposite of fascist. You are spreading an obvious agenda that flips history.

            • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Can you describe these ways using a proper analysis with historical accuracy and taking into account things like NATO breaking Warsaw Pact in the 90s?

              • IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                How would the Warsaw Pact be an excuse for being a christofascist totalitarian state that imprisons “others”, kills political opponents, and invades other countries and steals their children?

                • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  If you think Putin is an orthodox Christian fashie, wait till you meet Joe Biden, Donald Trump, Justin Trudeau and most western governments’ heads that actually sleep in bed with church. Putin and Russia do not exactly work the way christofascist western totalitarian dictatorships, with a “neoliberal democracy” mask, do.

                  Also, are you describing Russia, or USA? You know, latter country rapes children in ICE camps and repigments the skin of black people, and conducts hysterectomies on women en masse. Also Catholic priests with state power get to kiddy diddle children with no consequences. In Russia, that would end up in either a mob murder or a death sentence.

              • IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                True but not the discussion being had here. Stay on topic.

                Also, stop holding Chomsky up as an authority on anything. He is a linguistics professor; nothing more…unless you count just being a leftist Alex Jones, presenting his opinion as fact and selling scripted interviews with himself as “documentaries”

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  The fact that US has been committing atrocities on the global scale for at least a century is crucial context for evaluating behavior of other countries Nothing Russia has done even begins to compare to the behavior US regularly exhibits. Countries have to be held to the same moral standard, and until the west starts accounting for its own crimes it is in no position to play world police or judge other countries.

                  Meanwhile, Chomsky is an accomplished political scientists with many published academic works on the subject. Dismissing hims as a linguistics professor shows profound lack of intellectual honesty on your part. And of course, nobody is asking you to take what he says as fact based on him saying it. The article makes a case that stands on its own merit, which you’d quickly realize if you bothered reading it.

                  • IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    Wrong. I’ve read enough Chomsky to know what he is, thank you. And no, I won’t excuse Russia for being an asshole just because the US is also.

          • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            And what was the path which made that possible in Ukraine and Italy? They didn’t fall to fascist populists while being a power which strengthens fascist populists globally. It’s hard to see what kind of 4D chess would make Ukraine create fascist minded separatists to be conquered and then fight them with neonazi militia.

            The USSR was quite aligned with their own take on fascism. That’s history.

            • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              And what was the path which made that possible in Ukraine and Italy? They didn’t fall to fascist populists

              Italy elected a neofascist girlboss as PM themselves.

              As for Ukraine, refer to the leaked call between Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt. You will know how democratic and sovereign USA wanted Ukraine to be.

              • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                I don’t think there’s any question if the USA is influencing Ukraine?

                I tried to say earlier that the neofascists and its support in Italy didn’t come from nowhere organically. And that support leads to gaining power through elections (I guess as opposed to a coup or whatever?) as nations with elections do

      • IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Putin is a literal Nazi supporter using nazi politics to enact nazi policies while calling others nazis.

        It is hilarious that people are falliing for this.

          • IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            You actually think this makes a point of some kind? Putin oppresses political movements; he absolutely supports the ideology of them, just not in opposition to his authority.

            Wow. Imagine holding up a christofascist oppressor as a beacon of hope and freedom 😂😂😂😂😂

            • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Unlike Zelensky, Putin has not banned all opposition political parties. Tells you who behaves like NSDAP in 2023. If you think Putin is an orthodox Christian fashie, wait till you meet Joe Biden, Donald Trump, Justin Trudeau and most western governments’ heads that actually sleep in bed with church. Putin and Russia do not exactly work the way christofascist western totalitarian dictatorships, with a “neoliberal democracy” mask, do.

              • IHaveTwoCows@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                Are you telling me that Putin has not banned Pro Ukrainian sentiment? Do you really not understand why zelinsky has been Pro-russian parties? You people are utterly incapable of rational thought, aren’t you?

                • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Banning pro Ukrainian/Nazi sentiment is morally correct besides being a national security concern. NATO wants Russia balkanised, not Ukraine. Ukraine is just a condom for NATO to fuck with Russia.

    • zephyreks@lemmy.mlM
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      1 year ago

      Ah yes, because that doesn’t happen on its own.

      Russia and China don’t have to do shit when Europe’s greatest ally is as right-wing as it it’s been. In fact, there’s even a group for this: the International Democrat Union.

      • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Would the Russia and China far right connections and actions then be happenstance in that hypothesis scenario and how could they be explained to be unrelated?

        • zephyreks@lemmy.mlM
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          1 year ago

          Russia and China are irrelevant because their interests in Western economies are tertiary at best: it neither affects them ideologically nor economically.

          Whether Western governments buy Russian oil is entirely independent of what government it is. Whether Western governments buy Chinese manufactured products is entirely independent of what government it is. There’s this puffed up sense of Western self-importance that doesn’t really exist: Russia and China both see that the future of global economic growth will be in the Global South and are allocating resources appropriately.

          In contrast, the International Democratic Union (and similar organizations) have a strong ideological reason for backing right-wing parties and a stronger personal reason to do so: it nets them more funding from corrupt corporations looking for tax breaks and decreased regulation.

          • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I like your pondering.

            I have some notes with this theory

            There’s this puffed up sense of Western self-importance that doesn’t really exist: Russia and China both see that the future of global economic growth will be in the Global South and are allocating resources appropriately.

            In addition to each northern superpower abusing the hemisphere, they do fight for influence between the northern smaller ones – the aforementioned propping of accelerationist and/or reactionary movements being one way amoug the trade ones you focused on.

            IDU is a good example, while it seems to be just one path to the efforts

            • zephyreks@lemmy.mlM
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              1 year ago

              What’s the purpose, though? China and Russia hardly need to touch it, because it’s the direction that US money is flowing anyway.

              • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                What’s the purpose of US/China/Russia influencing others? Destabilization, dependancies, just to gain power for immediate or later use purposes? It’s a mighty big question that’d summarize the whole history of geopolitics. Always been happening in different forms I guess.

                • zephyreks@lemmy.mlM
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                  1 year ago

                  What power have China and Russia gained? China is decoupling from the West and Russia is doing so as well.

                  The evidence points to the fact that China and Russia don’t need to deal with politics in the West.

                  • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    Why do they then do deal and interfere if they don’t need to? Is it a distraction towards the US?

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      What actually resulted in far right becoming a serious force in Europe was the economic war with Russia. These parties have been fringe for decades, and now they’re polling high in most European countries.

      The right took a stance against the war from the very start, while the left shat the bed by siding with the liberals. Now that support for the war is collapsing people are moving to the right.

      • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        It’s the final straw (at this moment in time) yes for a situation which has been brewed for a much longer time

        Saw your edit

        The right took a stance against the war from the very start

        This relates more to the moderate right. The far right was openly supporting Russia and against sanctions even after the Crimean invasion. Only after 2022 mobilization they’ve started to hide this

        As the economy is once again in shambles thanks to how capitalism works, the voters are easy pickings for those with empty promises

          • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Yes. It’s a multi-pronged effort. Ops like these really take advantage of working classes in hardship everywhere

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              The hardships that the working class is suffering are direct result of the policies European governments pursued over the past two years.

              • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                Let’s fix that

                The hardships that the working class is suffering are direct result of the policies basically all governments in the world have pursued over the past four (or even more?) decades.

                And thus the landscape to gain support for reactionaries is ripe for picking.

                Europe isn’t alone. Capitalism slowly races wages down, the North America Trump play bolstered manipulating voters in places where voting is even possible, and then there’s the places where elections have been a bigger sham already.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Sure, the solution to the problem is to move away from the capitalism system and the exploitation inherent in it. There seems to be no real progress in that direction, and instead we’re seeing a shift to the right and fascism.

                  • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    Exactly. Europe is just the latest continent teetering on the verge, while the same is happening and has happened again and again everywhere.

      • Damage@slrpnk.net
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        1 year ago

        Nah they were gaining a lot even before the war. Do people have such short memories?