As far as I can tell, this prolifically posting account has literally never posted an article that wasn’t negative on Ukraine, and posts about 90% negative on the West in general. For whatever that’s worth.
And half the comments in this thread are from queermunist, who’s all for the “just let Russia have what it wants and everything will be great” side.
The flood of Rexiters did a lot to smother the tankie presence on the Lemmyverse, but it’s clearly still a strong undercurrent.
You joined a platform founded and inhabited by Marxist Leninist and checks notes … expected them to leave. Wtf?
No, I expected them to go hide in their little corner of it when the bulk of the population moving here turned out to reject their particular view on reality.
Whether they “founded” the platform is irrelevant, it’s an open platform and they’re going to be in the minority.
Edit: Oh, and since you switched the goalposts from tankies to “Marxist Leninists”, I figured I should point that out. I’m specifically talking about the people who think Russia’s full of awesome and manliness and crap like that, rather than being the kleptocratic mafia state basket case it actually is. “Marxist Lenninism” is just a word those people use to sound intellectual.
I hate myself for bringing the likes of you from datahoarder. Liberals are brainwormed…
In the past day I’ve been described as being “from” noncredibledefense and “from” datahoarder. I do happen to subscribe to both those communities, but I’m not “from” anywhere in particular. Those are just some of many subjects I’m interested in. It’s odd, this sort of community identification never seemed to come up on Reddit. And you personally certainly didn’t bring me here, I don’t know who you are.
Also, not sure why you’ve identified me as a “Liberal.” Haven’t voted for them in several elections now.
I was the one who made the big post for datahoarder to consider Lemmy as second base. Funny you are so active here.
That’s not why I came here, though. I was active on a great many other subreddits, and I “found out” about the Fediverse through other channels. I think I recall seeing that post, now that you mention it, but as I recall I already had an account here (or perhaps on lemmy.ml, which I tried out for a bit before switching to kbin.social).
What’s “funny” about me being so active here? I was active on lots of different subreddits on Reddit. You’re active here too apparently, is that “funny?” Honestly, I have no idea what point you’re trying to make.
😂 Lol
We joined a platform founded and inhabited by Marxist leninists and checks notes … Expected them to not support an authoritarian capitalist country. Is that really too much to ask?
Glad you understand what America is, and why the Marxist-Leninist here criticize it. Welcome home.
Eager to see what coping everyone switches to when it becomes obvious to Ukraine that the deal Russia offered in 2022 before the Kiev withdrawal was the best possible reality they would ever see again. Little Weimar on the Dnieper. No NATO, no EU, no Donbass, no Crimea.
Then again the epic bacon sirs will probably be given a new shiny thing in Asia or Africa to focus on.
Here’s another one.
Lol, it’s like finding shitty Easter eggs
Wow, not even a crumb of cope? What about the jets? Potential gamechanger I think.
I feel like I could invade your home unprovoked and take over your kitchen, eventually trashing up the floors to setup trenches to prevent you from retaking it and you’d just agree to negotiate and let me take your bedroom to fuck your mother.
Yeah and public spending is just like personal finances, don’t you agree?
I mean, I’m very wealthy, and the country I live in is also very wealthy. And we both agree we can spend pennies of the vast amount of our tax dollars to fuck up a shithole struggling incompetent third-world country like Russia through a highly competent proxy like Ukraine without lifting a finger. So yes I agree.
You also didn’t refute what I said about invading your home, so you sound like a tankie cuck. PM me your address please and I can help show your beautiful kind mother a good time.
I guess Washington Post is Russian propaganda now…
I didn’t attack the source. I just pointed out that someone posting more than most on lemmy could push a certain point of view using any and all sources if they cherry pick.
Wow, that’s a new one. “I can’t question the legitimacy of the source so I’ll question the legitimacy of the poster as a way of refusing to engage with reality”
That’s certainly quotes around a lot of things I didn’t say. I admit I need to do a better job seeing past my own biases.
I also admit OPs posting pattern is materially irrelevant to the contents of the Washing Post article on its own. I was just pointing out a larger pattern within the c/worldnews community as a whole. In that context someone with an agenda can have influence.
But I’m not sure why I did. They seem like a nice person and post good faith articles. This was probably a misaimed shot on my part, true or not.
Democrats are working hard for Putin, after blaming Trump.
They’re 10% positive on the West? Thank you for this valuable information comrade. We’ll be sending them back to the reeducation center for ideological training purposes.
Ha, I knew it! I knew the OP was a Kremlin asset and it wasn’t just me grasping for reasons to not engage with an article from a credible mainstream source because it presents an inconvenient reality.
Posting “90% negative on the West in general” is still softballing it.
But yeah… still lots of pro-Russian propaganda flowing around here.
Thanks for looking into it!
God forbid someone tries to have a well rounded opinion on the situation through all the western propaganda by contributing articles outside of the one narrative you choose to believe.
I actually read most of Nightowl’s submissions for the reason you mention, to read outside my “narrative.” But they have an agenda and people should know that.
Well I don’t believe you’re real either.
If this is a play on my username, I laughed.
Unfortunately Russia’s strategy of mining the front so heavily it won’t be safe for a hundred years is proving pretty effect at slowing the Ukrainian advance. I hope the rest of the world never lets up on the sanctions. Russia is a fucked backwater that loves war crimes. They need to be punished.
Excessive sanctions long after the reason for them can have a detrimental long term outcome. I am with you to sanction hard while they occupy even one square inch and I emotionally want then to pay for long after but in the name of stability, that is not the best option.
The reality is that this conflict is only being driven by a relatively small number of people. Everyone else is along for the ride or being brainwashed. Punish those people for life but unfortunately that will never cover the economic cost much less that of life.
hope the rest of the world never lets up on the sanction
Sadly only some countries sanction Russia. As long as the Democratic alliance doesn’t sanction everyone who doesn’t sanction Russia, Russia will continue the war.
They love war crimes? We love war.
Denys Davydov did video on these type of comments about a week ago. He dragged up a lot of newspaper front pages of the invasion of the Nazis in 1945. There was a ton of articles stating just how slow the move was going. An attacking force is always going to have a hard time against a very entrenched enemy. You also have to remember Ukraine does not have a good air force until they get those pilots trained up for the F-16. They are making gains and are knocking on the second defence line in two areas. Any gains Russia has made they loose 2 days later, with the exception of Bakhmut.
That’s just not true. Ukraine has not even gotten through the first defense line anywhere along the front. Where are you referring to with them knocking on the second line?
So it is a lie that they have broken through to Robotyne?
I’m not sure if Robotyne has completely been taken by AFU or not, but that’s not part of the “first line of defense”. These are outer/forward defense positions. We aren’t totally sure what portion of Russian defense units are manning these forward positions however, and the RFAF have tried to build up fortification around the area, but its not the first official line, which is maybe where people get confused.
If you look at this image, I’ve labelled the two main lines of the Russian defenses from deepstatemap:
https://i.imgur.com/MnksZXt.png
And here I’ve circled in blue, an example of what portion of the Defense in Depth doctrine, Robotyne and areas where AFU has made gains, these parts of the front are equivalent to:
https://i.imgur.com/nOSvIJU.png
Source for second image US Fort Moore on Russian Maneuver Defense: https://www.moore.army.mil/armor/eARMOR/content/issues/2021/Spring/2Grau_Bartles21.pdf
Russia have left Robotyne and those black lines are defence lines. The deep state map is always a few days behind.
Ukraine has also committed the 82 brigade into that area to push further forward. All of which has been made possible with the newer method of mine detecting.
Ukraine will not receive F-16 fighter jets from its allies this year as hoped, a spokesman for the country’s Air Force said late Wednesday, confirming that, as expected, the advanced planes won’t play a role in the current counteroffensive.
However, American officials have said that Ukraine has identified only eight combat pilots — less than a single squadron — who speak English well enough to start a period of training expected to last at least a year.
If D-Day was reliant on eight fighters being operational in June 1945, I don’t think the chances of success would be very high.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/world/europe/ukraine-f16-jets-nato.html
Precisely the point. The allies had air superiority. Ukraine does not, therefore you cannot expect the same gains.
I would add that D-Day involved what, 200k soldiers? While the eastern offensive at that time involved 3.5 million soldiers.
Ukraine has what, a couple hundred thousand Russian soldiers? Blunting the initial offensive and signing a peace treaty was always the best option for Ukraine itself.
It was because of the Russian offensive that the Germans were defeated. Anyone with an interest in history knows that. Without Russia there was no beating Germany.
D-day landings were 175k men, the invasion force was a 3m strong multinational force.
I disagree that Ukraine should defer to a peace treaty, while the west supports them. It is western hardware that is making the difference. Ukraine knows this. It states it publicly and often. Russia are not making any gains against Ukraine now the Wagner have left the field. What Wagner committed in Bakhmut was unsustainable, and arguably the limits of where it was going to get to. Since Russia is nothing more than a crumbling obstacle now, why would Ukraine give ground to Russia. The Ruble has collapsed. There is dissent at the top now with daggers out for scapegoats. The damage Prigozhin did is still making its mark. All the war is doing is making Russia more and more indebted to China. China is happy to sell Russia arms to watch it destroy itself.
Russia’s best outcome right now would be to be able walk away without incurring reparations cost for the carnage they have reaped. However, I doubt this will be seen as acceptable.
Sacking all of your recruitment officials (as Zelensky did days ago) is always a sign of imminent victory and definitely not a sign of desperate exhaustion. The Russians are (probably) waiting for the Ukrainians to destroy what remains of their armed forces on those impossible fortifications. Once this is done, Russia will retake whatever territory it has lost and snap up any land with a Russian-speaking population (Odessa for instance).
A bit of a stark difference between the belligerents isn’t it. One has a corrupt army that cannot fight due to the restrictions that corruption that has caused. The other stamped on corruption when it was revealed. The only win Russia will see from this travesty is if they decide en masse to remove the corrupt blight that infects their country.
The only win Russia will see from this travesty is if they decide en masse to remove the corrupt blight that infects their country.
The Russian Federation and the government of Ukraine are both creations of the USA. Are you saying that we should bring back the USSR? Before you answer with the usual liberal nonsense, please google the terms “yanks to the rescue” and “Siberian intervention.”
They’d have lost Kharkiv and Kherson if they’d done that. So clearly in hindsight that was not the best option.
And another important thing to bear in mind is that the start of the advance is the hardest part of the advance. Russia has built up a thick crust of defensive lines. At some point the advance penetrates that crust, and then the gooey center goes much more quickly.
Unless the Russians abandoned all of good Soviet military doctrine (which is quite possible since they’re so virulently anti-communist), that is the furthest from the truth possible.
The Soviet military doctrine has been Deep Operation since the founding of the nation, where there is no single hard battlefront, instead keeping the combat line deep and flexible. Unless there is significant evidence to the contrary, I would assume that the operational paradigm for the Russian military remains the same.
combat line
If there’s a “combat line” then there’s another side to that line.
It’s not exactly a line. It’s miles and miles of defensive fortifications, entrenchments, units, and supply lines in a myriad configurations. There’s no breaking through it in a traditional sense. Like I said earlier, the entire doctrine of warfare is different, like how the US armed forces doctrine is based on aerial support.
Ok, a thick line. Haven’t you seen the map?
That’s exactly what I’m talking about. How is that a line to break through? It’s a mesh of defensive fortifications miles deep.
I’m not seeing a “mesh” on that map. I’m seeing a line. There’s a speckling of fortifications deeper in, but a military that has broken through that line isn’t going to have much trouble with a speckling. That’s the “gooey center” I was talking about. The main strength is concentrated along the line.
Now I want cupcakes. Dammit.
What invasion of the nazis in 1945 are you talking about?
You mean Allied advances into Germany?
Also can’t deny that denys guy is far from an impartial source lol
OFC he is not impartial. The media articles he linked were partisan towards the allies mentioned in them. Even in their own press the allies were referred to as being slow. This was not seen as a criticism. Germany were seen as a formidable force to be reckoned with. The fact they were even moving in the right direction at all was to be commended. There was an understanding that the task was difficult, much like Ukraine removing Russia is now.
Not impartial as in, a Ukrainian propagandist. I purposfully avoid headlines like 'Russia DESTROYS recruits with LANDMINES. How would you trust a guy like that, right?
The reality on the ground is totally different than the situation in 1945, too. German industrial capacity, manpower, air force,… Were pretty much out of the picture. Showing headlines from the times back then only shows you how it was being reported on.
O aye, can you link to that headline?
I respect him as a voice of reason
And what is wrong with Ukraine not just bashing its head into russian defenses and instead go for a slow-and-steady approach? They still have reserves to spare, word is Ukraine is rotating its troops on the front regularly. So as long as Ukraine can keep up the pressure and russia not being able to stop their slow advance, they will be successful eventually. Would another Kharkiv thrunder-run be preferable? Surely.
But russia is prepared this time. And instead of being all doom-and-gloom, the West could step up its commitment to see Ukraine win. Apart from artillery shell production, weapon manufacturers still see no increase in weapons procurement. It’s time for the West to let actions follow its words on support of Ukraine. As long as their words ring hollow, Putin only has to wait and eventually outpace dwindling western support.The problem of that approach is that winter is coming soon and battles will soon ground to a halt. Which will give Russians the time to build up their defensive layers again.
Spring offensive of 2024 will commence afterwards. And then the spring offensive of 2025, 2026, 2027…
Plus tanks work better in the winter and Russia has quite a few of them which are cheap and easy to deploy.
Had quite a few of them.
Ukraine is fighting for their existence, russia is fighting for the oligarchs. Ukraine will prevail.
It will just take the Great Men of History to rise up, show how destined they are as Main Characters (such as yourself) and then after an epic boss battle with Putler and his secret lover Drumpf, they, and you, will be shown to be the Adults In The Room that Made The Hard Decisions and saved the Rules-Based Order.
The oligarchs declared war on the oligarchs, but rest assured the oligarchs will win.
Actor Volodymyr Zelensky stormed to the Ukrainian presidency in 2019 on a wave of public anger against the country’s political class, including previous leaders who used secret companies to stash their wealth overseas.
Now, leaked documents prove that Zelensky and his inner circle have had their own network of offshore companies. Two belonging to the president’s partners were used to buy expensive property in London.
The revelations come from documents in the Pandora Papers, millions of files from 14 offshore service providers leaked to the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists and shared with partners around the world including OCCRP.
The documents show that Zelensky and his partners in a television production company, Kvartal 95, set up a network of offshore firms dating back to at least 2012, the year the company began making regular content for TV stations owned by Ihor Kolomoisky, an oligarch dogged by allegations of multi-billion-dollar fraud. The offshores were also used by Zelensky associates to purchase and own three prime properties in the center of London.
Wow, such quality source, so much tankie.
Dronie meltdown
Not that reality matters to nazis like yourself living in fantasy realms, but:
awww, looks like someone has a bad day now that Tankies shoot down tankie plans. Such wow.
I don’t have a problem with Prigozhin getting got if that’s what you’re talking about…?
Least Marvel brained liberal.
Nice decapitalisation of country’s initials, Nazi scum.
Is the tankie gonna cry?
No, laugh at a worthless INGFASHie like you. Eventually you teenagers and young adults are going to find yourselves on the streets begging overlord corporations for food stamps and necessities, and therein lies the possibility of communist revolutions by the very citizens of white countries purging elements like you.
u mad tankie? awwwww, just go upstairs, mummy is still there
Eat shit and get diarrhea. And then pay $100s for medicines. You might just get back your senses.
Nah, we got socialized healthcare here in Canada.
Not for long 😉
Shit rashists say.
To also be absolutely clear, no Ukraine is not fighting for its existence. Russia’s interest in territorial gain extends only to the areas of majority Russian-speaking, ethnically Russian populations.
Such as may be discerned from any one of these maps here
Yanukovych was the president illegally deposed in a coup in 2014, with the area voting >80% for him matching almost exactly the territory still held by separatists at the start of 2022
This one’s really interesting: Zelensky ran on a platform of peace in the Donbass and reversing the ban on Russian as an official language, which he immediately reneged on after becoming president
Land currently held by Russia. If they try to take any more, it will most likely be towards Odessa, both to cut off Ukraine from the sea and because it’s a firmly Russian-speaking area.
This is for the very simple reason that it’s literally not possible, in the modern world, to hold territory in which the native population does not want you to remain. Trying to do so will only result in a very long, very costly anti-insurgency campaign and your eventual defeat. This is exactly what NATO was hoping for when they baited Russia into attacking, that they would try to occupy and hold the whole of Ukraine. Instead, Russia only bit off as much as it could chew and is now allowing the Ukrainians to waste all their soldiers and equipment by attacking into impenetrable fortifications. When that’s done, they’ll counter-counterattack, grab some more Russian speaking land, and then let the limping Kiev rump state collapse under neoliberal austerity shock doctrine privatization administered by their ‘allies’ in the West. Ukraine could have avoided all this by upholding either of the two Minsk agreements that were painstakingly worked out by diplomats from both sides, but unfortunately the hand of their masters in Washington was too strong.
You’re deluding yourself trying to explain russian millitary failure as some sort of advanced move. Remember the intense fighting at Hostomel airport? The huge column stuck on the road to Kyiv? They totaly thought Ukraine leadership would flee and they’d be able to take the capital.
russian speaking land
what makes you think russian speaking people support Putin’s regime? They don’t. That’s like assuming Zelenskyi supports Putin’s regime because he’s a native russian speaker.
They support Russia because the Kiev regime has been trying to genocide them for the last nine years! After the coup against the president that the Russian speaking areas voted for the new coup government immediately banned Russian as an official language. They made it illegal to teach it in schools! They attacked and persecuted people across the Russian speaking area, especially the Donbass. For instance in Mariupol, Kiev sent the overtly fascist Azov battalion to attack and break up a march in celebration of the 69th anniversary of the Soviet victory in WW2, using APCs and live ammunition. Now why would they attack on Victory Day, the day of symbolic victory over the Nazis? The officers of the Mariupol police station refused to go out and beat up marchers, so they were quietly murdered. Here are the events depicted even by western empire media, back before they’d had the ‘Slava Ukraini’ chip installed.
As for the early days of the war, here I go posting it again:
I assume you don’t consider the Marine Corps Gazette to be Russian propaganda.
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I will try to remember this in 6 months.
is 1 week special operation going well ?
Source on where Putin said 3 days?
Can’t even read. Poor tankie
You have not provided the source, illiterate white poster.
In soviet russia, week has three days apparently.
You do not even know what lie West made up to troll Russia… atleast troll worthy enough of being paid.
That’s the hope but that didn’t save Georgia.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Ukraine appears to be running out of options in a counteroffensive that officials originally framed as Kyiv’s crucial operation to retake significant territory from occupying Russian forces this year.
Meanwhile, a war weary Ukrainian public is eager for leaders in Kyiv to secure victory and in Washington, calls to cut back on aid to Ukraine are expected to be amplified in the run up to the 2024 U.S. presidential election.
“The question here is which of the two sides is going to be worn out sooner,” said Franz-Stefan Gady, a senior fellow with the International Institute for Strategic Studies and the Center for a New American Security, who visited Ukraine in July.
Sak, the adviser to the defense minister, said the slow progress clearing extensive mine fields along the front is preventing Kyiv from engaging the majority of its Western-trained reserve forces.
Ukrainian forces have retaken roughly 81 square miles of occupied territory since the counteroffensive began in June, with the greatest gains occurring near Bakhmut in the east and in the Zaporizhzhia region south of Orikhiv.
The Biden administration has “very successfully” managed risk of a direct conflict with Russia by gradually providing Kyiv with more advanced weapons systems and longer-range munitions, said Kelly Grieco, who researches air power operations as a senior fellow at the Stimson Center, a D.C.-based policy group.
The original article contains 1,338 words, the summary contains 223 words. Saved 83%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Is there a reason the European powers aren’t chipping in? They realize Putin is going to invade them next, right?
What makes you think European powers aren’t chipping in?
https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/28/how-much-has-the-eu-given-to-ukraine-compared-to-the-us
Where did you get this from?
History. No bloodthirsty conqueror ever stopped conquering until someone stopped him, usually by killing him.
Nukes
Wouldn’t munitions like the HIMARS with tungsten balls set off these mines they’ve used?
Why not make smaller versions to shot gun blast a path?
You are stupid for saying this or even having the thought in your head.
A HIMARS blast is a few meters wide at best. Each rocket is about $240,000. There are probably dozens of km of mine fields between the front line and the sea of azov and Russia can deploy mines remotely to fill any gaps that Ukraine makes.
The blast from the ones using the tungsten balls literally covers a massive area.
It uses AoE by a blast up in the air that scatters 180000 balls over 85 meters.
That’s about the size of an American football field.
That’s a bit more than a few meters, you inbred Tankie.
85 meters That’s about the size of an American football field. That’s a bit more than a few meters, you inbred Tankie.
American education system really showing its worth here. An american football field is over 100 m if you are working with a margin of error of +/-15% at the start of your calculations your results will be dog shit. Do you know how many meters are in a KM? Do you know how many KM there are between the front line and the sea of azov? 85 is a few meters and in this context it is a drop in a bucket.
You’d need like 300 million dollars worth of missiles provided 1) a Tungsten BB is big enough to set off a Anti-Tank mine 2) they all work correctly and hit their target, 3) none of them get shot down by Anti Air defence, 4) the mines don’t get redeployed and 5) USA has stock/makes that many of a specialty missile
Then once that is all done you have a single path that is 85 m wide to drive down and Russia knows exactly where to aim its artillery.
Its a stupid idea. Ukraine has the best minds the west can come up with. they don’t need your smooth brain to come up with ways to send more Ukrainians to a sure death. They are doing fine without you coming up with multi million dollar flops like this one. Go back to losing at HOI 4 on easy while using cheats.
I think a mine-clearing line charge does something similar to what you have in mind.
Those are neat to watch. There’s always the Flail
“Shot gun blast a path” through the minefield. Brilliant, now you have all the troops in a line ready to be mowed down by the Russians.
If it were that easy they would have done it already.
Vlad Vexler tried to explain why the some in the western political left, defend russia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=017WGzJ5fHA
Oh god I actually watched half of this. He says the left (apparently Jeffrey Sachs is left now?) just bought Putin’s argument about security concerns, but (big reveal about halfway in, choir music swells), Putin is actually driven by mystical thinking and megalomania.
So Putin is lying when he talks about realpolitik or says anything that makes any sense. But when he speaks of history or the motherland or whatever, then he’s telling the truth. He’s definitely not just doing a bit of story telling to hit on those emotions. No Sir! That’s a window right into his soul. And apparently his personal feelings are enough to move whole armies.
Maybe, just maybe, there are actual material reasons for why stuff happens, and it’s not just ideas in the minds of individual “great men”.
Nah I’ll ride w noam over some goatee wearing dipshit thx
For all his faults, there are moments when I still have to appreciate him. Like watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJGYmfTaFRw
This babyfaced brit fuckwit is in absolute overdrive trying to steer the framing and questions to the ‘correct’ viewpoint and he just gets battered aside by a wizened ancient spouting facts. To the point of having to disclaim beforehand that the interview might not meet acceptable thought-cleanliness standards for the civilized mind.
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What does that have to do with the article?
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Quick, throw more money on the fire!
The problem is that Ukraine is given enough not to lose, but not enough to win. At this rate, Ukraine will depend on western hand-outs much longer than if the West fully committed to see Ukraine restore its borders.
The problem is that Ukraine is given enough not to lose, but not enough to win.
The problem is that Ukraine is given what the West can afford to give, they haven’t got the industry to fight Russia’s war machine in a war of attrition anymore after deindustrialization and the shift to neoliberal policies. Sucks to suck, shouldn’t have shipped manufacturing to China to crush their domestic labor movement 😄
They’ve been given the West’s surplus. The stuff that’s been sitting in inventory waiting to be decommissioned because it was thought to be obsolete.
Turns out Russia’s “modern” stuff is inferior to the West’s obsolete stuff, though, so that’s been working pretty well.
What do you think “winning” looks like tho? Absolutely annihilating Russia?
Forcing Russia to stop and reverse its invasion. If you think that it will take the total annihilation of russia, so be it.
No. I don’t think that’s “winning”. First of all Russia is more than just Putin. Actual people live there. As much as in Ukraine. They wouldn’t be that much better than Russia if Ukraine “invaded” Russia back. Also for that to happen the west would need to support Ukraine so dramatically that it most certainly would come to a nuclear Supergau. This “total annihilation of Russia” would mean in return the total annihilation of the human race.
I don’t think Ukraine can “win” against Russia with sheer military might. No matter how much they are supported. That’s an archaic view of politics and war. The only real solution to bring piece is a peace contract. It isn’t the 11th century anymore where two armies would clash against each other and the one coming out victorious is the winning party of the war. I’m not one of those “stop giving Ukraine weapons and military aid und jUsT tAlK wItH pUtIn” guys but in the end there has to be a treaty. And you can’t do that by just bombing the shit out of Russia cuz that’d mean the end of the fucking world.
That’s the point. The West doesn’t want the war to ever end.
Then it’s up to the people to demand more support from Ukraine.
Absurd. America has already given $75 billion in “assistance” to keep this war going, imagine if that had been spent on people who need it in America? And you want to spend even more than that??? Every bomb is food stolen from the mouth of a hungry child.
It would literally never go to social programs and you know it.
Yeah because this is a demon shithole country. Money only gets spent on murder, never on helping fucking anyone.
About 24 billion is non-military financial aid and 4 billion more is humanitarian, so that’s a big chunk not being spent on bombs. Slightly more than half of the remainder is the estimated value of old stock being sent over and therefore could not be “spent” on assistance for Americans anyway. The remaining 23 billion that is actually money spent on equipment and training is less than half of one percent of annual federal government expenditure. Weapons for Ukraine are not the reason money isn’t being spent on what you want it to be spent on.
How many billions of dollars do you want to spend on bombs?
Depends on what the countries sending it can afford and what it would take for Russia to stop invading. That’s not the point I’m making. The point is that the none of the countries aiding Ukraine are currently spending anything anywhere close to enough of their budgets to significantly affect any other spending they do. If you’re unhappy with how your government directs the other 99.6% of its budget, yeah, I get that. I am at mine too. But helping Ukraine is not the problem there.
What is your plan than?
What should the west do?
Let me guess, you have no alternative that does not boil down to “Let Putin and people like him do what they want.”
Negotiate an end to the war. I’d support a UN monitored vote in the Donbass region and Crimea (and any other contested area) on whether they want to join Russia or stay with Ukraine.
Let’s assume a peace is negotiated, in which each party assures it respects the aggreed-upon borders. Similar to the Budapest Memorandum, signed and broken by Russia. How could Ukraine trust them this time?
I’d support a UN monitored vote in the Donbass region and Crimea (and any other contested area) on whether they want to join Russia or stay with Ukraine.
That sounds good at first glance. But given Russia has the opportunity to persecute any opposition in the contested areas, and bring in loyal settlers, the results are likely skewed even if the vote itself is fair and transparent.
Fundamentally, I still don’t understand why one should negotiate with a burglar how much they get to keep.
Negotiate an end to the war.
Russia refuses to give back the lands seized.
Now what to you do?
I’d support a UN monitored vote in the Donbass region and Crimea (and any other contested area) on whether they want to join Russia or stay with Ukraine.
Not an option the Ukrainian gov will accept. Nor should they.
When parts of the USA wanted to leave that was not response from the USA.Sorry, but as if. Russia is a UN veto power. And Russia would never accept UN troops sent by the West to oversee anything. And african nations won’t want to piss off Putin by agreeing to this. Putin wants his anti-NATO back and this war will only end with Putin thuroughly defeated.
Not to mention that such a vote would be a farce anyway. Russia has had enough time to kill, torture, intimidate or disappear enough people that such a vote could never be fair.
And as for the money spent on Ukraine, it’s but a cheap talking point to suggest that supporting Ukraine and supporting your own population are mutually exclusive. Not to mention believing that if the money wouldn’t have been spent on Ukraine, that your own people would’ve seen that money is pretty delusional. For starters, most of the support sent by the US is hardware. And the given value for that support is the replacement cost for the kit sent. However, most of the kit sent was due to be replaced anyways, so the actual cost for the US is much lower than the figure being thrown around.
Imagine if Russia hadn’t invaded Europe.
Russia is in Europe and has been since it was found.
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You know full well we do not spend food on horn children in America for they come from sin. We only care about the unborn. Ask clearly you are fake american.
Better than the tankie method of using lives instead!
It’s good use for the money, this way it’s not used to buy Russian fossil fuel or help billionaires commit suicide in expensive vanity submarines.
this way it’s not used to buy Russian fossil fuel or help billionaires commit suicide in expensive vanity submarines
This is actually a much better way to use the money,lmao. Also _elenskyy should have just stuck to playing the piano with his knob.
Haha, pianist :submarine:
Sure makes you tankies mad that a comedian has been destroying the legend of the glorious red army and their special operation 😂
what red army? there hasnt been a red army in ~30 years and back when there was, ukrainians were part of it…
do you think russia is communist? do you think we think russia is communist? please wash your brain, it’s dirty.
