cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/1425359
Archived version: https://archive.ph/1Iraz
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230814002229/https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-66448563
Regulate nicotine. It serves no purpose besides addicting people to a product. Once people are capable of making a real choice, the problem will become much less severe. Over time, it might even disappear completely.
Regulate different types of nicotine differently. Vapes are highly addictive but not dangerous. Cigarettes are highly addictive and will kill you.
The science isn’t fully decided on vapes - AFAIK the PG/VG and nicotine are relatively harmless (though nicotine does carry some heart/stroke risks) but the flavours are generally only tested for safety when taken orally, not when atomised and inhaled. Flavourless vape juice is therefore probably safe, though hardly anybody sells it, it’s kinda unpleasant, and it does still carry some health risks.
Let me just rephrase what you said. Instead of “the science isn’t fully decided”, which paints an incorrect picture, let’s rather say “of everything they’ve tested in a typical legal vape, everything is essentially harmless. Some of the components haven’t been tested.”
Saying “the science isn’t fully decided” implies “eh, maybe it’s dangerous, maybe it’s not, 50/50”. That’s not at all the case. It’s almost certainly all harmless. Just very addictive.
That’s not true. “The science isn’t fully decided” means that long-terms effects are extremely hard to measure, it literally takes decades. The amount of liquids of different flavors is so big that you can’t realistically test them all. Different flavors require different chemicals, you can get the same taste with different chemicals too. Yes, basic liquid is probably less harmful than cigarettes, but even for that there’s not enough data to say that this is a scientific fact.
Regardless of the health effects, addiction (and related expenses) can cost you hundreds, or even thousands of dollars. People go to counseling, join support groups, and buy nicotine patches to try and quit.
I say “try” because on average, former cigarette smokers had to try to quit several times before they were successful. Many former smokers say that quitting was extremely hard, maybe even the hardest thing they’ve done. I don’t know for sure, but I suspect the same is true with vaping.
I don’t like nicotine because it’s used to manipulate and take advantage of people. The product/delivery method is irrelevant.
The product/delivery method is irrelevant.
What absolute insanity. You see no difference between drinking water and drowning in it?
I think comparing vaping to drinking water is disingenuous - it is not needed and has active harms. Just because one thing is less harmful than another doesn’t mean we can’t regulate both heavily.
It does mean that, unless we are stupid or have ulterior motives, we should not regulate them equally heavily.
Besides, the science shows vaping is nearly harmless. I think that, again unless we are stupid, we should not be regulating it “heavily” at all. Just ban it for under-18s. Enforce that ban. That’s all.
It should be regulated at least as much as food though don’t you think? Not just ban it for under 18s but specify what can or can’t go into a vape product.
Otherwise you’ll get companies using cheap but dangerous to inhale substances over more expensive safer substances that do the same job.
Sounds perfectly fair.
I have no idea what point you’re trying to make.
The delivery method for vaping is water vapor. The delivery method for cigarettes is to wrap the nicotine in poison and then burn it. And you see no difference?
Ah.
Of course I see the difference. The fact that cigarettes are dangerous to your health is so screamingly obvious that I didn’t even think that was something we needed to tell each other.
My point is that nicotine makes it much harder to stop vaping or smoking once you decide you want to. That’s what I meant when I said “the product/delivery method is irrelevant”, and why I started my comment with “regardless of the health effects”.
It doesn’t matter how the nicotine gets into your system. It messes with you anyway. Regulating specific products is like playing an endless game of whack-a-mole. The industry will keep finding different ways to get you hooked.
We’ve tried regulating tobacco, so they found a nicotine delivery system that doesn’t rely on tobacco. Let’s attack the addiction problem at the source - regulate the nicotine. That way, when they come up with something new (like an energy drink or something) the existing laws still apply. The slow-moving government doesn’t have to play catch up. Consumers stay protected.
Nicotine addiction is not a PROBLEM though, no more than caffeine addiction. The problem is when the only legal way to get caffeine is by a cocktail of red bull and arsenic.
Nicotine is not the issue. The delivery method is the whole problem.
That smoking is generally far worse for individuals and society than vaping is.
Why is it that the world can exist with cotton candy vodka but can’t figure out how to keep cotton candy vapes out of minors hands?
Because alcohol is generally well regulated, and even regular flavoured vapes are poorly regulated.
So fucking regulate them, don’t ban them
Doesn’t the article only mention the banning of disposable vapes? Did you know there is enough lithium in all the disposable vapes used in a year, to make 1200 electric car batteries. Per year. In the UK alone.
Great, but that’s not why they were banned. I was talking about the US though, where a great many jurisdictions are totally banning vapes, or banning all flavored vape juice, due to this hysteria.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted.
Teens can unwittingly purchase altnoid vapes from gas stations, smoke shops, instagram, and more.
Buying boof vapes poise a much higher risk than other fake “marijuanas”.
To anyone dabbling in that lifestyle, it is not worth it. Only trust legal dispensaries. On the black/grey markets, you could be inhaling heavy metals, solvents, toxins, and other things you shouldn’t be vaporizing into your lungs.
You only get one pair of lungs, take care of them, lung damage is permanent. Vaping unregulated oils can risk things such as, chest pain, chemical burns, diminished breathing, headaches, lipoid pneumonia, collapsed lung.
It is possible to buy both fake packaging, and prefilled vapes in fake packaging from China.
If that’s not an option, look into making your own distillate. It’s cheaper and cleaner, it tastes better, and you don’t support terrible practices.
Because parents have been told they’re not allow to discipline their kids, so instead they have to blame everything else for their failed crotch spawn.
I suspect the ban on disposable vapes will have some effect.
So would an age limit on nicotine-containing product purchases, but there’s less unanimity on the need for that.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
You can find vapes inspired by video games, they come in bright colours and flavours like bubble gum and candy floss," she said.
For long-term adult smokers, it’s seen as a less harmful alternative but the flipside to that is the exponential rise and accessibility of vaping to teenagers and at times younger children.
Marni Wilton said many vape shops had popped up recently around her Auckland suburb close to her sons’ local schools.
Ms Wilton said the new government regulations fail to address the problem: “This absolutely doesn’t go far enough to help our children.”
Ben Youdan, who has worked in tobacco control and campaigning for nearly 20 years both in the UK and New Zealand, said banning vaping only drives it to the black market rather than get young kids off it.
Mr Youdan is now director of Ash NZ, a lobby group campaigning for a smoke free New Zealand.
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Lol I remember it being “SmokeFree 2020” when I was a teenager, guess that didn’t quite work out!
Also, I gotta wonder if banning vape alternatives such as nicotine pouches a few years back might have slightly impacted the availability/accessibility of vapes. Still reckon that was a bloody drongo move.
How has vaping become more popular than smoking? Flavoring, lower cost, accessibility? Seems like those have fairly obvious solutions.
Furthermore, vaping by itself is not chemically addictive at all. It’s the nicotine content in vapes. So, along with the above options, if young people are offered a zero-nicotine product for significantly less than those that contain nicotine, I think it would be obvious which one they’d choose.
I know it’s not something you’re really allowed to say anymore but nicotine is enjoyable, people tend to vape for the nicotine similar to how alcohol free beer isn’t very popular
Vaping isn’t bad for you, nor is nicotine really, so what’s the big deal?
There are various studies that definitely prove that they are harmful in short and medium term (less than traditional cigarettes) and already has lead to death. There hasn’t been a lot of research into long term effects as the trend is still new. So potential harm from long term usage is unknown.
Which studies? I’m legitimately curious as the only deaths I’ve heard of were because of the vitamin e acetate they were using in the knockoff cannabis pens.
https://nap.nationalacademies.org/resource/24952/012318ecigaretteConclusionsbyEvidence.pdf has a pretty good overview.
Full paper: https://nap.nationalacademies.org/catalog/24952/public-health-consequences-of-e-cigarettes
The EVALI outbreak in US was determined to be caused by “illegal” products, but the materials to produce them are not banned in the US as far as I know.
I’ve been looking through that study for the last 20 minutes and I don’t see anything about anyone dieing from normal nicotine vape products.
There is conclusive evidence that in addition to nicotine, most e-cigarette products contain and emit
numerous potentially toxic substances.In other words, bullshit. The dosage makes the poison.
Bullshit. No study has ever found nicotine to be harmful at the concentrations present in vapes.
They’re trolling, and caught you. 🪝
