I would imagine most societies would look sort of like Germany or Japan, but the real question is which widespread social norms are directly or indirectly caused by endemic and widespread Neurotypical Disorder, as well as what those social norms would be replaced by
For example, I would expect the attached poster to not exist for various obvious reasons. But how do you think an autistic society would handle the indication of listening/attentiveness?
I feel like all these utopian ideas fail to take into account that uh, autism takes a lot of different forms and some of them ask for completely opposite things.
Some autistic people have a…laissez-faire approach to hygiene, some are neurotic about being clean. Some stim, others would rather commit murder than hear that goddamn toy go “clicky clack” one more fucking time. Some are hyperempathetic with no sense of personal space, others have low empathy and just want to be left the fuck alone. And that’s before you start considering comobidities - I think most people with ADHD would rather die than eat deliberately understimilating “autism cusine”
I feel like most people here are answering “what would it look like if everyone was your specific brand of autism?” not “what would it look like if most people were autistic?”
I’d say either we end up with everyone forming tight cliches (not good for a greater society) or one group overpowers the rest and enforces their “lack of social skills” as the new social norm. Now it’s “don’t look directly at people” and “be as blunt as possible” and “chili is banned forever”
This is something I tried to take into consideration for my comment as it is difficult to really give a definitive answer. I think people forget that autistic people aren’t guaranteed to cooperate with each other and may even have more conflicts.
Yeah, my first thought was, “Two words: mutual meltdowns.”
That is certainly true in my experience. I remember making a friend in middle school, but when I told him I thought baseball was boring he got very mad at me and never forgave me.
Baseball was his SI
Very valid points which have got me thinking a bit more.
Some issues and scenarios would probably be a bit exaggerated due to the amount of passion and how principled one can be about something. Radical and different attitudes would probably be the norm, both positive ones and negative ones alike depending on your perspective.
Getting people on the same page could be more difficult… likely addressed with very specialised products and regions - lets say one city caters to people who really prefer quiet and cleanliness, and another for people who want to get around by bike but still enjoy nature. This is a really idealistic way of looking at it though, but I don’t think it’s entirely unrealistic.
I wonder how poverty would affect things too
I think it would be mostly a net positive, because for most of us (in my opinion/from my perspective) money isn’t the sole motivator for our passion, possibly leading us to be more inclined to try and help others of a different NT flavor who need more support, or direct our passions into things to benefit ourselves and our corners of the planet.
If I ever amassed a large amount of money, I’d love to start a project catering to NTs. There was one previously in my country centered around engineering education, but those facilities closed down because we all kept failing - mainly due to turnover, lack of staff and support available for us. The non-NT minority did really well in contrast though. The 2 hour public transport commute was long, i do not miss that. Personally LOVED everything else though, it was so chill and everyone was friendly af. I helped the racing team work on their car’s custom ECU, one of my friends started a web design business there, another started a charity - the head gave both a room, free of charge to use at any time. The whole thing felt like a startup I guess, without any of the crunch or that stuff. I don’t recall there being any disruptive students either. The experiences I had there make for a very interesting CV, got lots of questions about them when I was looking for a job previously. Really wish others could have the same opportunities available.
I feel like most people here are answering “what would it look like if everyone was your specific brand of autism?”
Most of us here are likely answering from this perspective without realising lol.
But chili should be banned forever
There can be only one answer to that!
Probably a lot more generosity and kindness.
There was a study that suggests that autistics have more consistent moral behaviors than the “healthy population”, which would back up that claim.
Yes, and apparently that is a disability, according to the researchers.
A lot more creative things would happen because people with autism are rarely attracted to the banality of money. Business and economics are the most boring thing for autistic people as they are only a means to an end to pursue their “special interest.” I mean, it’s been suggested some highly “successful” people are autistic like Elon Musk, but the majority of people with autism are into creative projects. In fact, one of the biggest challenges is trying to get somebody with autism to care about money at all.
One of my closest friends is autistic af. You described him to a tee. Doesn’t give two shits about money outside the practical need for it, and a highly skilled illustrator who pretty much spends his life drawing. Values his skillset more than anything else.
Also dude remembers history books and TV series plots like nobody’s business. Never a dull moment with him around. Occasionally annoying cause he really doesn’t know when to shut up (not his fault, I know), but most of the time I enjoy pretty much just letting him private podcast while I provide commentary.
Honestly this also describes my life. I don’t own a lot of things, my MTG decks suck ass, and my family really has to push me to upgrade any of my devices. My life is slow-paced and I am happy
because people with autism are rarely attracted to the banality of money. Business and economics are the most boring thing for autistic people
…you do realise economics is like, maths but with more organisation and planning right? Two things that are sterotypically pretty damn appealing to a lot of autistic people. I think you’re severely low balling the number of people who’s “special interest” is compound interest and poisson distributions
Could you please elaborate what you think about Germany in this context? Have you ever been to Germany?
I only really know what my dad experienced doing safety stuff for BASF. According to him, the German facilities don’t have to idiot-proof their man-killing contraptions, because if there is a sign saying “Do not touch this high-voltage wire” the German workers will follow directions and not touch the high-voltage wire, even if doing so would make their job go faster.
Also, the fact that germans pay for gas after pumping it was a huge shock to me. I can’t imagine having that much trust in society at large.
Japanese culture (not the work culture though) and Dutch infrastructure - a match made in heaven IMO. I really would like to experience what living in a NT society would look like. Communication would be an interesting experience though
No idea what current norms would have been influenced or shaped by NTs
There’s also the sexual harassment and unacknowledged war crimes that we definitely should not adopt from Japan.
Oh that stuff absolutely is getting left behind.
I was more interested in the percieved respect, honesty, integrity (e.g. people not nicking your stuff if you drop something somewhere), generally friendly attitudes, tech innovation, appliance design etc.
I was more interested in the percieved respect, honesty, integrity (e.g. people not nicking your stuff if you drop something somewhere), generally friendly attitudes, tech innovation, appliance design etc.
I like those aspects of Japanese culture as well but I think it’s always good to be wary of accidentally romanticising a culture as no country is perfect.
Yepp, that is true! Nowhere is perfect, and it’s easy to accidentally romanticise a culture especially if it’s fresh and different to what you’re used to
What about Dutch infrastructure speaks to you? I’m not very familiar about things outside of burgerland
I think OC is talking about walkable/bikeable cities
A few off the top of my head…
The general small/livable scale of things, although this is more of a european thing IMO
The continuous footways that separate busier roads from residential roads, encouraging drivers to be a bit more considerate of pedestrians. Some other countries try to copy these but most don’t get the balance quite right
The canals everywhere in the cities look really nice, although this is less of an infrastructure thing I think
Suburban areas with nice small roads (woonerven and fietsstraten IIRC?), giving a more homey feel, discouraging speeding and rat-running while still allowing people who need cars to have one
Extremely well connected bike path network, usually with enough parking to match
Appropriate road sizes, sometimes separating the direction of travel with green space & trees so it looks inviting and natural, and kinda self-regulates driving speed
A lot of design cues in general that aim to keep road users safe, whether on foot/bike or in car
According to some tourists: Finland
Ads would either be far less prevalent or change noticeable.
There would also be far stricter regulations regarding lights and noise.
There would be a narrative trope in media of awkward characters who derail communication due to their tendency to force double meanings in conversations.
I think school/work days would be shorter and more intense. Small talk and chit chat would not be an integrated part of a work/school day, but instead something that happened before or after school/work if you wanted to. A meeting wouldn’t start with 10 minutes of “how have you been?” or random jokes, but instead jump right into business. Working from home would also be more common.
Having a niche hobby or working with something niche would be way more common, and hobbies would be viewed as more important than they are today. People without any hobbies or interests would be viewed as really weird.
Practical and comfortable clothes would also be more common, and fashion would be more erratic/varied. Pop culture would be less of a thing.
Autistic people have it really hard in Japan, because there are so many hidden social rules and adults who don’t know or can’t follow them are seen as antisocial. Germany is not so bad. Here in northern Germany at least, people (NTs too) mostly accept direct communication and tend to be rather direct themselves. And I rarely had bad experiences when I needed to ask for clarification.
I think one of the largest changes would be an overall decrease in economic productivity. Society would shift away from capitalism as many concepts would either be unintuitive to us or aren’t possible to uphold with our overall capacity. In practice this would likely mean a reduction or outright elimination of full-time work, which is replaced with alternative options like WFH or the four-day work week. This may impact the open hours of stores but there is a possibility that improved work conditions may mitigate that.
Assuming that this is a society of mostly autistic people from the start rather than a gradual replacement of neurotypical people, it might actually have better outcomes for autistic people as the stigma created by neurotypical people wouldn’t exist. Or it would be significantly decreased.
There is a fair bunch autistic people whose whole identity is their job and will gladly exploit themselves. If workplaces were adapted for people on the spectrum, this would probably be far more common, which would in turn reduce the tendency for autistic people to align with antiwork philosophies.
I wouldn’t encourage autistic people to exploit themselves and be exploited, especially as many can suffer from autistic fatigue and burnout.
I mean, sure, but the OP isn’t about what kind of society would we choose to build, but about how we think things would have developed.
There would still be conflict relating to that as there are many autistic people who have the reduced capacity to work or outright cannot work at all.
Are you forgetting about the entire section of society that does physical work…?
Accidentally, yes. I wouldn’t know how they would be affected though.
The art style makes me want to puke. Also, aren’t feet already quiet?
Logic will prevail!
We’re ASD, not robots
Then why couldn’t you pick up on the sarcasm?
Because we’re ASD??? /lh
But you just said you’re not a robot…
I’m speaking for myself.
I actually disagree with this. In my experience austistics are just as prone to believing things because they feel true as NTs. We definitely value reason more, though, but I’m not sure how much of that is in reaction to how NTs treat us
