Commercial transactions -

Aaah, the kind of transaction that most transactions are?

Operated by providers

Aah, so any business which accept crypto must KYC every one of their customers. This makes accepting crypto especially burdensome, which is half the point of this legislation in the first place.

So non-commercial transations are fine, as are crypto transactions to non-custodial wallets.

Unless you’re using the wallet to buy or sell something. You know, the thing people use money for.

Why does the government need to have every transaction reported to them? Crime is bad because it causes harm. If harm is being caused, that means a person or entity is causing that harm. That means there is evidence. Follow that.

Police have more surveillance and crime-detecting tools than at any point in human history. Nearly every category of crime, particularly violent crime, is on a decades-long downtrend. We all travel with GPS monitors in our pockets. We all use credit cards instead of cash. We all are recorded by CCTV 90% of the places we go. We don’t need to give them more financial surveillance because ‘crime’.

There’s lots of people who use the dollar and other currencies I don’t like. But I still use the currency. Bitcoin has faithfully kept its fiscal policies and promises for 15 years. It’s money whose supply can’t be diluted through inflation. You can be your own bank. That has never changed. Whatever it originally promised, it’s still doing.

Yep. Unfortunately both the left and right in the US seem to have free speech in their crosshairs one way or another. The right with “don’t say gay”, their book bans, and war on drag, the left with the TikTok ban, wanting the government to be able to define and regulate “misinformation” on social media, etc. The long-term protectors of free speech like the ACLU have even done a pivot away from free speech cases because they perceive them as unpopular.

China did that. We criticized them for it. Now we’re turning around and doing it. “We should get to do it because insert dictator here does it” isn’t a great argument.

I joined this instance at random, look at my history if you think I’m a tankie.

“You can’t use this at work” and “You can’t use this ever” are very different things.

Look up a network map of lightning, it’s not centralized at all. Payments typically route through multiple hubs, just as many Bitcoin nodes may be involved in processing a main chain transaction. Anyone can run a lightning node, and you can choose which nodes you want to use, if you want. There are thousands of them to pick from.

The lightning channels are secured by the main chain. There is no centralized party who can rug you.

Except it’s not, it’s an ad platform.

Right. So if they sell ads on it, it’s not a speech platform right? Reddit, not a speech platform? The Washington Post? The Guardian? Lemmy, when lemmy instances start running ads, Not a speech platform? Gmail? Not a speech platform?

Nope, absolutely incorrect, it is indeed just a company being banned.

It’s not. This isn’t a company that sells cars, they provide an online speech platform. It’s my ability to use the speech platform that gets banned in the process. They can ban TikTok from being able to “do business” in the US, that is different from pulling it from the app store or installing a great firewall to prevent US citizens from accessing their site. And frankly, “doing business” has been an inherent part of speech platforms for decades, selling advertising on speech platforms is how they can exist, all the way back to the days of newspapers and radio.

Except they already made Oracle handle all that and they can easily legislate privacy protections without banning TikTok entirely. And, again, it is my right as a citizen to install whatever app I want even if it is spying on me, just like the rest of my apps do. I could film every second of my life and put it up on Facebook or a personal website and the Chinese government could watch it and there’s not a damned thing the US government can do about it.

Rules for thee not for me

Good point. We are all vulnerable to manipulation and should only read content that is approved by the US Govt. Anybody who breaks this rule should go to jail. That is for our safety ✅

If China is going prevent US companies from doing profitable business within its economic borders I don’t see why the US should allow Chinese companies to engage in profitable businesses ventures within its country.

1. They get to do whatever they want because they’re a dicatorship. 2. We aren’t talking about oil extraction or car sales here, we’re talking about something which is explicitly a speech platform. They are different.

It’s not just a “company” being banned, it’s the government telling you that you can’t use that companies services for your speech. Imaging the US government banning the The Guardian because it’s not owned by US citizens. That’s the same thing as banning TikTok because it’s not owned by US Citizens. The government has no right to ban newspapers or websites which are otherwise engaging in legally-protected speech. You have a right to hear what they have to say.

They are all examples of speech platforms the government targeted because they disagreed with what they were publishing. Because of the precedent set in those situations, the government has even more latitude to prosecute even more speech they don’t agree with. The basis of the TikTok ban is literally it’s “foreign propaganda”. Propaganda is just “stuff the government doesn’t want you to hear”. The right to hear things the government doesn’t want you to hear is one of the most basic rights of human expression. Not just in the US, but in the UN Charter on human rights as well.

Fear of “foreign influence”? You would find that exact argument being made by the Soviet Union to block US films and books in their country. You would find that exact argument being used in China to block internet access. You would find that exact argument being made in Iran to stop the discussion of homosexuality.

The govt can do anything it wants to punch back so long as it’s not infringing on the rights of its citizens. Our plan to stop China from “influencing us” is to… become more like China?

Who are they worried China is going to influence? Children, right? If it’s adults, that’s almost more insulting, they think we don’t deserve to be able to see all sides of an argument and are too stupid to discern fact from fiction. We may as well dispense with free expression entirely at that point because the government can just say “you’re too stupid to read this and we’re worried you’ll be influenced, so you can only read the books we’ve pre-approved for you”

It is every American’s right to think freely, to speak those thoughts to others, and to have others have the opportunity to hear those thoughts whether or not they are “good influences” according to govt. It is wild how easily people are willing to throw that right away for fears of “foreign influence”. What’s next, banning TV shows from foreign countries because they might “corrupt our culture”? Banning books with subversive topics because they will “give people bad ideas”?. This is how the road to fascism begins.

Since when is reading newspapers your government doesn’t agree with a right? Since when is communicating with people your government doesn’t like a right? Since when is publishing whatever you want a right? Since approximately 1776. It’s such an important right that it’s literally the first one in the constitution. Because our ability to speak freely and criticize the government is one of the rights that underpins all others. The medium shouldn’t matter, speech is speech whether it’s an app, website, chat server, newspaper, bulletin board, code, painting, drawing, whatever. If the government can just shut down any medium or venue they don’t like because “it’s propaganda”, that basically closes the door to any open criticism of the government.

We’ve tried not having those rights for the sake of convenience, expediency, or social pleasantness. Tends to not end well. Ask people in Russia or Iran how that “government gets to dictate where and how you speak” thing is going for them. Insane bootlicking going on in this thread.

Not with L2s like Bitcoin lightning. Your fees come in under a penny in most cases and are not tied to chain space because they are not on chain. This is 100-1000x less than credit cards, for example.

It’s more complicated than this, and it gets more complicated every year, especially with lightning. It’s certainly not monero in terms of privacy, but it’s not the same Bitcoin it was 10 years ago where this was more or less true.

Wait till you hear about stocks and derivatives. No way are they ever gonna make it big time. Only used by sleazeballs trying to get rich.

I use it on a regular basis. I also run a non-profit that funds open source tools for scientists, it makes accepting donations a lot easier for us among other benefits for our donors (they don’t have to pay capital gains on the coins they donate, just like stocks).

Bitcoin is pretty incredible and offers decent anonymity which continues to improve, Monero offers more. Lots of scams in the “crypto world”, but Bitcoin has faithfully kept its fiscal policy promises for 15 years:

• Fixed supply of 21 million coins. Your money’s value is not diluted by supply inflation.
• You can send funds to anybody in the world with a smartphone and a halfway reliable internet connection in under a second for pennies in fees (with Bitcoin lightning). And you can do it from your couch, no banks required.
• It has operated 24/7, 365 days a year for 15 years without a single hour of downtime, bank holiday, or hack, and has survived attacks from many angles including nation-state actors.
• At every possible turn it has chosen decentralization and security. I can’t say the same for most other coins.
• And it has done this with < 1% of global electricity usage, mostly from renewables and other “stranded” supply. Pretty powerful stuff.

Monero’s privacy features can be absorbed into the Bitcoin protocol whenever Bitcoin decides it wants to, that is the biggest long-term risk to Monero IMO. That and centralization of block production due to increased block size. Bitcoin worked around this block size problem with L2s like lightning, Monero chose bigger blocks though of course it could always add an L2 if it wants to.

I will always upvote Firefox 😎😎😎

I’m not a bot, I just see things differently than you. I think Bitcoin and blockchain generally will lead us to a more efficient, more peaceful world where people have more financial and political autonomy. I think things will look different (in a better way) when our underlying currency supply is not inflationary. Most economists disagree.

after all the existences Bitcoin and it’s offspawns must have ruined, them not having provided any tangible benefits to humanity in the process, how can one still argue it could ever do anything good as a replacement for money.

When people talk about negative associated with crypto, as I’m sure you know, 99% of the time they are talking about stuff that is not Bitcoin. Most of the scams in the crypto space fall apart with the slightest scrutiny. Many of the most notable scams have little to do with crypto at all. FTX was a classic ponzi scheme, most of which have been done with fiat currency, yet we do not blame the US dollar for Bernie Madoff’s existence. Exchange collapses are bad, I agree, which is why I always advise people to not store significant funds on exchanges. Those exchanges need to be better regulated/have better oversight and transparency. Any time you have a third party store funds for you, whether they are a bank or exchange, there is a risk they will rug you. There are also risks associated with self-custody. That is for each person to weigh and decide. The US and Europe have had fairly stable banking systems the past 100 years or so, which is a historical anomaly, but most countries are not so fortunate, and it’s not like the EU and US banking system have not had their own collapses, rugs, and other issues. I would go so far to say that fiat currency is also a scam, just one we have come to accept as legitimate. It is designed to lose value over time, it fails the basic function a currency is supposed to provide, which is as a store of value when you sell your labor or goods so that you can then use that value to purchase something equally valuable from somebody else. That functionality doesn’t happen if your currency lost value due to supply inflation. We have the state control currency because they were the most stable institution ever created by humanity, so they were our best option. Satoshi changed all that.

As far as utility? I think the market cap speaks for itself, so does investment by major investment firms and banks. I can send money to anybody on planet earth with a cell phone for less than a penny in fees. The transaction settles instantly. It doesn’t matter whether or not they have access to a stable banking system or if my bank/country has an agreement with their bank/country to enable the efficient transfer of funds. I can do it from my couch instead of M-F 9-5 and I don’t even have to wait in line at a bank branch. That’s powerful utility right there. I sent Bitcoin to Ukraine’s government when the war started so they could buy weapons and whatever else they needed. That would have been a slow, expensive nightmare to do with bank wires. My bank likely wouldn’t have even let me send money to a country at war since the receiving bank couldn’t guarantee liquidity in exchange. DAOs are powerful ways to change the way we organize society. I help run a non-profit bounty program for open-source projects, people donate to it with crypto, which is much easier to do on an international scale when we don’t need to involve the conventional, slow, convoluted international banking system. We can use those crypto donations to fund open source tools for scientific research. There are many points of utility.

Small countries are now experimenting with Bitcoin because it gives them a way to have a reasonably stable currency without becoming subservient to the US. Before Bitcoin, their options were to manage their own currency which they lack the stability to do or become subject to the whims of a foreign government. Likewise, in some parts of the world, women cannot legally have a bank account. But they can have a phone and run Bitcoin on it. Granted, that would be illegal for them too, but it is at least possible whereas there is no bank that would agree to open an account for them. That’s a different kind of utility than the kind I get out of it, but a relevant form. Bitcoin can be a powerful tool against tyrants and dictatorships, a way to “opt out” of the monetary system that keeps them in power.

I find Bitcoin useful, you may not, that is your choice. I have used it in everyday transactions, I have bought and sold goods and services with it. Since I have started making an effort to prioritize using it, I have been surprised how many places will accept it for payment. Much of crypto is hot garbage or outright scams, even if the technology itself has great potential. Crypto exchanges and stablecoins are not to be trusted. That said, Bitcoin has kept its fiscal promises to me and all of its users for 15 years. There’s no reason to expect that to change in the next 15, as long as computers still run the protocol, it will execute itself faithfully. The protocol works, you can use it to send coins from point A to point B. Whether or not you or society or whoever find that useful is not up to me.

Bitcoin solves this. The 1 BTC you have today will always be 1 BTC which will always be the same portion of supply. How much that BTC buys you will change over time, but the portion of supply will always remain the same. And if the last 15 years are any indication, it will generally buy you more over time. Meanwhile, your fiat currency increases supply by 2-3% per year in “good” years.

BTC has kept to its fiscal promise or a fixed supply and reliable transactions for 15 years. Bitcoin has a market cap of 850 billion dollars, which places it in the top 25 countries by GDP. Bigger than Sweden or Israel. It is decentralized and not run by any country but by a protocol enforced by tens of thousands of computers all over the globe. With Lightning, you can send an international transaction in under a second for under a penny in fees. You can do that with a smartphone and halfway reliable internet access. It works in warzones, it works in international waters (with satellite internet), it works everywhere. It doesn’t care what your credit score is or whether or not your authoritarian government likes Bitcoin or not. No middlemen, no bank holidays, and it does this for < 1% of global electricity usage, mostly from renewables and “stranded supply”.

Fees with lightning (Bitcoin) are often under a penny per transaction and transactions settle instantly. Usability has come a long way here.

Digital IDs are step one to a central bank digital currency which is probably the greatest threat to individual liberty, privacy, and financial autonomy we will face in our lifetimes. Imagine a currency supply the government can manipulate at will, where the government has 100% visibility into every transactions you make big or small, where the government can print and un-print money at will or dictate where and how you spend it. And imagine when the political party you don’t like is suddenly in control of this kind of power. Central banks already engage in enough shady behavior and market manipulation and if we give them this power, they will never give it back. This is a dangerous road imo. Plus, a CBDC provided a centralized database of all transactions can be hacked and leaked because that happens to all centralized databases, so now not only does the government know every transaction of yours, so does the world.

If we need the ability to do digital ID verification, there are decentralized opt-in ways to do this which don’t pose these same threats of centralized control and provide a safe opt-out/safety valve mechanism if the people administering that system are not trustworthy. CBDCs provide no such alternative.

Good. I don’t use TikTok and never will, but the government shouldn’t be able to tell you what kind of speech you listen to, what speech you make, or what platforms you use to communicate it. This is some 1984 shit. Looking forward to Trump banning every app except Truth social because we opened the door to this nonsense and all the other apps are spreading “anti-christian hate speech” or “anti-american-first propaganda”. Fuck the CCP. But also fuck the government trying to restrict speech.

Your defense is “some other dictatorship does it, so that doesn’t concern me?”. Saying things are OK because the CCP or Putin does them is a very slippery slope.

Yes, I too would love the US president to decide which social media platforms I am allowed to legally use and who I can legally communicate with. I’m so scared China is going to, checks notes, influence my opinion that I’m willing to sacrifice my free speech rights in the process. Regulate me harder, daddy! 😍

There are ways to achieve significant privacy using Bitcoin, the protocol itself is pseudonymous, lightning in many ways enhances privacy. But you need to know what you are doing and there are many gotchas.

This is the real story IMO. The government has no business telling people they can’t use certain apps for their speech. What’s next? Apps which support encryption? Apps which don’t support whoever the current political party is? You want Donald Trump or Joe Biden in charge of which apps you’re allowed to use, really?

How come every thread I see about this topic, there is nobody who is concerned about letting the federal government dictate which apps you can and cannot use to communicate with other people? This is some 1984 shit.

Added to the sidebar @AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml @Cloak@lemmy.ml @cat_programmer@lemmy.ml @haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com @dez@lemmy.ml

It did. With Bitcoin, anybody with a cell phone and halfway reliable internet access can send money globally in under a second for pennies in fees (with Bitcoin lightning). They can be their own bank without trusting any single third party. It doesn’t matter if their country has secure banking infrastructure and it doesn’t matter what their credit score is. There are countries on this planet where women aren’t allowed to open bank accounts. Bitcoin doesn’t give AF.

It has promoted and maintained the exact same fiscal policy for 15 years without a single hour of downtime or hack: a limited supply and a guarantee of your ability to transfer your coin to somebody else. No bank holidays, nobody devaluing your currency by increasing the supply. No having your savings robbed by an unstable central bank. It gives anybody in the world access to a currency that is already as stable or more stable than most national currencies. And it gives any country in the world an option aside from using USD and, inherently, losing some degree of autonomy in the process. There’s a reason Ecuador and Argentina went in on it so hard.

People underestimate how big Bitcoin really is. It’s market cap is 850 billion USD, that’s the size of Sweden’s GDP and puts it in the top 25 countries by GDP. On average, it has a trend of consistent growth year after year as adoption continues to increase. It is uncensorable, the US could decide to ban Bitcoin tomorrow, a gamma ray from space could blast half of the earth out of existence, and the next block would come regardless and the network would continue to function.

It does all this for around 1% of global electricity usage, mainly from renewables and is powering a new green revolution by being a “buyer of last resort” for power grids. This makes electricity cheaper for all other users of the grid as it’s able to buy power when nobody else wants it, enabling power generation facilities to not lose money during times of low demand. This also makes it easier for grids to add renewable capacity. Bitcoin is a form of energy storage in that sense. Miners don’t buy power during times of peak demand for price reasons, so it doesn’t take power that anybody else would be using.

And more scientific research accomplished if you donate your CPU cycles with !boinc@sopuli.xyz !

Y’all should know about BOINC. It’s one of the world’s largest distributed computing networks used for “volunteer computing” where people donate computing time to scientific research. It’s federated/permissionless/open and anybody can create a BOINC project. !boinc@sopuli.xyz

Also check out #DeSci, lots of people working on interesting incentive mechanisms to fix scientific publishing. There’s a whole bunch of projects listed here http://desci.world/

Yep have done this for years. Cut a corner off a sponge each time it enters its next life phase so you can easily identity the phase it’s in by the way it looks.

Now this is a suggestion I haven’t heard before, thank you I will look into this!

!boinc@sopuli.xyz if I am donating GPU power to science research. There is a BOINC client for Linux but packaging is a hot mess (though getting better) and compatibility with graphics drivers is hit-or-miss. So any crunching rigs I have w/ GPUs all run Windows.

I’ve been wondering if it might be a water hardness/softness things. I’ve experienced this in several different cities, but it’s possible they all had either hard or soft water.

Yes. And I have experienced this on dishwashers that don’t have filters as well.