Some of the greatest minds in history have proved the existence of God, but atheists immediately dismiss them because they don’t agree with the conclusion. This is an old rehashed argument, even when atheists become convinced of religion the other atheists retrospectively try to invalidate them. I could show you a long list of evidence but if you don’t have an open mind to actually read it and instead pre-dismiss me before I even post it then I’m just wasting my time. Peace.
I’m going to assume you’re online a lot and this isn’t your first message board. Let me ask you a serious question, how often have you seen someone change their mind online? How many people have changed political parties because someone on a message board reply convinced them? Or changed religious belief?
I’ve been on message boards for literally decades and seen people argue over religion since the beginning. I can’t point to many successful cases of someone changing their mind, even being generous I’d say for every 100 thoughtful posts with long citations, less than one time does someone actually digest it and change their mindset. That shows this isn’t really the forum to have it out, and I’m not going to write a long researched post just to have someone say “you’re wrong and stupid” as a reply once again.
I’m not trying to deprive you, but if you are generally asking in good faith I can point to some good books and YouTube videos or honestly the best way is in the real world; stop into any mosque and ask to speak to the imam, have him explain what Muslims do and don’t believe and WHY they believe it. The answer may surprise you.
I have seen people completely change their minds due directly to interactions in online forums, but you are correct that you will not change my mind because I can guarantee that I have heard variations of all of what you believe to be evidence as I have also been in online forums for decades and wrestled with my own faith early in life.
I get annoyed when people try to use the language of science to bolster their religious beliefs. Science requires simple, repetitive evidence and religion cannot provide that. If it could, we would not be having this discussion as I would share your beliefs.
Your faith should stand alone. It doesn’t need scientific validation.
Some religions can provide evidence, as I said above. My faith stands alone but it also has evidence to support itself. Your claim that we’d all have the same beliefs if there was evidence is false, because have you ever met human beings before? We can’t even agree on climate change despite overwhelming evidence, let alone the rest. God even says in the Quran that He could make things appear in the sky and it still wouldn’t convince everyone.
At least you admitted you aren’t willing to engage in good faith discussion, so it’s not worth continuing. Peace.
You’re trolling. You admitted you wouldn’t take any argument seriously and I said I’m not going to waste my time writing something you won’t bother to entertain, so all you’re trying to do is troll me. If anyone else had legitimate questions I said I’d be happy to answer them, but why would I waste my time on you?
“you are correct that you will not change my mind”
Why bother writing a reply or showing you evidence when you admitted you won’t even bother to consider it? I love discussion and won’t waste time on trolls.
I have changed my mind from online forum discussions.
I changed my stances on policies and politics based on being informed of facts and data. I’ve changed how I detect logical fallacies. I’ve changed where I stand on transit systems and how government can support communities based on arguments centered around what it means to even have government.
I’ve changed my perspectives on liberty and libertarianism. In several cases I went and read books suggested by other posters which changed my perspectives. (A Libertarian Walked into a Bear is a great one).
I’ve read research data and articles people post to support their claims and positions. I’ve read articles from sources that I wouldn’t normally read to debate someone’s claims.
Yes, much of the internet is full of people making fire and forget posts or won’t do any self reflection to allow for their own growth, but how is that any different from the physical world? Learning and growing is hard. Allowing your held beliefs to be actually challenged is even harder. It takes being humble and recognizing that you might be wrong, even about things you’ve known your whole life.
If the claims are supported by evidence, then they’ll stand even in the face of human subbirness and small mindedness, but if the evidence is weak then don’t expect it to really gain traction. If they counter arguments you get are still stronger then your arguments framework, then get better evidence or actually be honest and look at your own position as well. I’ve had that one happen too. I posted a position online, got shot down, and after reflecting I found I was wrong. It happens. That’s part of being human.
Some of the greatest minds in history have proved the existence of God, but atheists immediately dismiss them because they don’t agree with the conclusion. This is an old rehashed argument, even when atheists become convinced of religion the other atheists retrospectively try to invalidate them. I could show you a long list of evidence but if you don’t have an open mind to actually read it and instead pre-dismiss me before I even post it then I’m just wasting my time. Peace.
You’re telling me you have incontrovertible evidence of god’s existence and won’t share it because you assume I will reject it. That’s fucking lazy
I’m going to assume you’re online a lot and this isn’t your first message board. Let me ask you a serious question, how often have you seen someone change their mind online? How many people have changed political parties because someone on a message board reply convinced them? Or changed religious belief?
I’ve been on message boards for literally decades and seen people argue over religion since the beginning. I can’t point to many successful cases of someone changing their mind, even being generous I’d say for every 100 thoughtful posts with long citations, less than one time does someone actually digest it and change their mindset. That shows this isn’t really the forum to have it out, and I’m not going to write a long researched post just to have someone say “you’re wrong and stupid” as a reply once again.
I’m not trying to deprive you, but if you are generally asking in good faith I can point to some good books and YouTube videos or honestly the best way is in the real world; stop into any mosque and ask to speak to the imam, have him explain what Muslims do and don’t believe and WHY they believe it. The answer may surprise you.
I have seen people completely change their minds due directly to interactions in online forums, but you are correct that you will not change my mind because I can guarantee that I have heard variations of all of what you believe to be evidence as I have also been in online forums for decades and wrestled with my own faith early in life.
I get annoyed when people try to use the language of science to bolster their religious beliefs. Science requires simple, repetitive evidence and religion cannot provide that. If it could, we would not be having this discussion as I would share your beliefs.
Your faith should stand alone. It doesn’t need scientific validation.
Some religions can provide evidence, as I said above. My faith stands alone but it also has evidence to support itself. Your claim that we’d all have the same beliefs if there was evidence is false, because have you ever met human beings before? We can’t even agree on climate change despite overwhelming evidence, let alone the rest. God even says in the Quran that He could make things appear in the sky and it still wouldn’t convince everyone.
At least you admitted you aren’t willing to engage in good faith discussion, so it’s not worth continuing. Peace.
And you are absolutely unwilling to provide examples of your “evidence.” It seems neither of us are willing to engage in good faith.
You’re trolling. You admitted you wouldn’t take any argument seriously and I said I’m not going to waste my time writing something you won’t bother to entertain, so all you’re trying to do is troll me. If anyone else had legitimate questions I said I’d be happy to answer them, but why would I waste my time on you?
And now we’re on to ad hominem attacks. You will not share your “evidence” because you know it will not pass scrutiny.
“you are correct that you will not change my mind”
Why bother writing a reply or showing you evidence when you admitted you won’t even bother to consider it? I love discussion and won’t waste time on trolls.
I have changed my mind from online forum discussions.
I changed my stances on policies and politics based on being informed of facts and data. I’ve changed how I detect logical fallacies. I’ve changed where I stand on transit systems and how government can support communities based on arguments centered around what it means to even have government.
I’ve changed my perspectives on liberty and libertarianism. In several cases I went and read books suggested by other posters which changed my perspectives. (A Libertarian Walked into a Bear is a great one).
I’ve read research data and articles people post to support their claims and positions. I’ve read articles from sources that I wouldn’t normally read to debate someone’s claims.
Yes, much of the internet is full of people making fire and forget posts or won’t do any self reflection to allow for their own growth, but how is that any different from the physical world? Learning and growing is hard. Allowing your held beliefs to be actually challenged is even harder. It takes being humble and recognizing that you might be wrong, even about things you’ve known your whole life.
If the claims are supported by evidence, then they’ll stand even in the face of human subbirness and small mindedness, but if the evidence is weak then don’t expect it to really gain traction. If they counter arguments you get are still stronger then your arguments framework, then get better evidence or actually be honest and look at your own position as well. I’ve had that one happen too. I posted a position online, got shot down, and after reflecting I found I was wrong. It happens. That’s part of being human.