• Bear@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    They probably won’t ever stay fully out, since anyone can make an instance, just up to mods and individuals to block them and not federate with obvious natzi communities.

    • aedalla@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Utopia has always been a process, never a destination. You will never be able to elect humans that will act in your interests forever. You must stay alert and aware of the happenings around you and constantly advocate for yourself and those who can’t.

        • grue@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          And Parler, which is just as dead as the other three.

          See, that’s the thing: there’s a reason why all of the “free speech” (read: nazi safe space) services are either dead or dying. It’s because the nazis don’t actually want their own platform; instead, they specifically want to come infest everybody else’s in order to spread their hate. They’re less a community, and more a disease.

      • Omgarm@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        There’s a lemmy server where a lot of alt-right and more extreme views have sub-lemmys. It got defederated by Lemmy.World and others and now they’re upset that most people on other servers don’t get to see their hate-speech.

        • randomguy2323@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Oh I love more and more lemmy! Its just incredible they can create their own server full of stupid ideas and we stay away from that drama

        • El_Rocha@lm.put.tf
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          1 year ago

          I did a quick check of the frontpage of the server and didn’t find anything that extreme. Can you show me some nazi related posts?

            • El_Rocha@lm.put.tf
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              1 year ago

              You’re right. Just call everybody the names you want regardless if they are accurate or not. If it’s fashionable enough it will stick everytime, so who cares right?

                • El_Rocha@lm.put.tf
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                  1 year ago

                  Everybody in this post is calling the server nazis.

                  I went there and at least in the frontpage there were only edgy right wing memes and some normal posts. But no white supremacy stuff or something related to that.

                  So I asked if someone could show me the posts that made them call the server nazis. And instead of a reply, I only got downvotes. Because god forbid you ask people why they consider others nazis.

      • Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de
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        1 year ago

        All I’ve seen so far was that there was a (inactive) The_Donald community on one of the bigger instances, which sparked a bit of drama…

    • Beliriel@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      The instance at exploding-heads.com got defederated from by a lot of instances and among them the largest one lemmy.world
      It happened due to them allowing hatespeech like “tranny faggot”. Top post now is complaining about how the rest is sensitive libs and in the same breath call “Joe Biden is a pedo”. They’re throwing a tantrum about how they’re getting cancelled because they can’t smell the shit under their own shoe.

      • earthquake@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        It’s not necessary to repeat the hate speech they got defederated over, you can just say “transphobic/homophobic slurs”.

        • SpookySnek@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          But the words themselves don’t mean anything more than the context they’re used in. I absolutely think you should be able to freely write the bad words that you are talking about to better explain what happened instead of censoring it. It’s obvious that op used it to spread information and not in a negative context, isn’t it?

          • earthquake@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Yes, there’s a difference between use and mention, but slurs are still slurs even outside of a negative context or without hateful intent.

            Repeating slurs isn’t always necessary and can sometimes still be emotionally draining for the targetted group to see even outside of the negative context. Just something to keep in mind.

    • Moghul@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Sorry for hijacking your comment, it’s the first one that popped up for me when I opened this thread.

      If you’re just discovering this post, trust me, it’s not worth reading. The comments are 50% nazis and 50% morons. There is no discourse ahead, only name calling, denouncing, whataboutism, and some really fucked up thoughts and people. You don’t need this in your day. You already know that nazis are bad, and nazis aren’t the only bad people. Go to illegallysmolcats instead

        • God@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          yup, they block many things, so if u wanna block many many things, why not start looking at what ppl who block many many things block?

      • MrEUser@lemmy.ninja
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        1 year ago

        The problem with these lists is that people sneak things on to them.

        I’m an admin on (and owner of) lemmy.ninja. We have clear anti-harassment rules, up front, in bold, front page. We have zero bots (checked daily). We have users that are LGBTQIA+. I have zero tolerance for bigotry.

        Yet our site is on the lists provided.

        Apparently it doesn’t matter (the lists don’t work) because all of my cross posts (from my boomer shooter community) are available on beehaw.org in their gaming section.

        So these lists can be used as weapons, if they work. When thy don’t work they are just an indictment without evidence.

        • God@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Yet our site is on the lists provided.

          you’re wrong, your site is allowed by all the lists I mentioned.

          So these lists can be used as weapons, if they work

          These lists are not weapons, they are provided by the instances themselves. They are not false or artificial. They are current, and they display exactly what is real in the configuration of the servers.

            • God@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              There are 3 categories in settings on your server, as far as I know: Linked, Allowed and Blocked. I don’t know the difference between Linked and Allowed, but yes, these links contain multiple lists on the same page. The format is the following: https://domain.tld/instances, you will normally find from 1 to 3 lists there, (the Linked, Allowed and Blocked lists). Linked is normal, Blocked is defederated. Idk what Allowed is but I think it is also federated so 🤷

              • neo (he/him)@lemmy.comfysnug.space
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                1 year ago

                Linked are servers that your server knows about (that have communicated with it)

                Allowed, or the allow-list, if present means that the server can only federate with servers in the allow list. This is the most restrictive setting possible.

                Block, or disallow-list, means that these servers may not federate with yours. This is where servers go generally when they are “defederated”.

              • MrEUser@lemmy.ninja
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                1 year ago

                Thank you for the clarification. The problem I have is:

                Note that dbzer0 on the federation-checker.vercel.app shows we are being blocked. fba.ryona.agency shows that too, and apparently we are edgelords,don’t moderate, and have done something wrong with free speech…

                So something somewhere is broken…

                • God@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  The problem with dbzer0 is the same we had talked about before (edit: I talked with someone else from lemmy.ninja about this topic, your instance was blocked before). It’s old news. It’s from when you had a bot problem. Ryona has a cache and doesn’t clear it too often.

                  The problem with toot.foundation has nothing to do with that, though. I have no idea why they would block you. You can find the up to date list of blocked instances on a mastodon by going to the https://instance.tld/about. For example, for toot.foundation, which does block lemmy.ninja, here is the updated blocklist at the bottom, you have to click Moderated servers: https://toot.foundation/about

    • anfieldiro@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Ah yes, block entire instances en masse without the hassle of actually making the decision yourself, that would be nice

      • borlax@lemmy.borlax.com
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        1 year ago

        I run my own instance so that i can take a little control over the drivel that scrolls past my eyes. Far right ideologies don’t deserve a platform or an audience.

        • anfieldiro@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Idk, gonna be a very hot take, but I like my beliefs challenged and believe that everyone deserves a voice

          • Mirshe@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            The world came together in WWII and decided that Nazis didn’t deserve a place at the table. There’s a difference between “let’s decide whose economic policy is more useful now” and “hey I want everyone to have a nice life and these guys think a large chunk of the world doesn’t deserve to live at all.”

          • fiah@discuss.tchncs.de
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            1 year ago

            I like my beliefs challenged

            you like it when “other people should be treated as people as a bare minimum” is getting challenged? because that’s the belief that your average xeno-/homo-/transphobic asshole challenges. Many beliefs I have ought to be challenged on the regular, but not THAT one

          • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.social
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            1 year ago

            Idk, gonna be a very hot take, but I like my beliefs challenged and believe that everyone deserves a voice

            Nazis had a voice once, and folks listened to them. And we ended up with the Holocaust.

            Might be controversial but I don’t believe that people who want to murder minorities deserve a voice. I feel like that’s a pretty reasonable bar to set lol.

            • tobor@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Might be controversial but I don’t believe that people who want to murder minorities deserve a voice. I feel like that’s a pretty reasonable bar to set lol.

              It’s not controversial at all. The only people making “controversy” out of it are the ones who are mad they can’t spew hate

            • anfieldiro@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Sure, but did they actually say they want to murder minorities?? I’m yet to see that

            • anfieldiro@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              So you ban the “everyone deserves a voice” types? Because that’s what I said.

                • anfieldiro@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Tf is to sealion?? And I’d like to see the nazis you seem to be unable to not mention in a comment. What I’ve seen is that instances are defederating from exploding-heads. I’ve gone there, seen some edgier memes, some christianity oriented memes, some better memes(those three not being the same memes obv, the Biden ones are pretty unfunny). I’ve seen some honestly sensible policies - instead of banning people for using le bad words, they encourage people who are sensitive to such stuff to block and move on. You seem to call people fucking Nazis for using language that offends you, right?

          • MrEUser@lemmy.ninja
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            1 year ago

            The problem is, this isn’t just a challenge to beliefs. This is the internet. The darkest most depraved shit that can exist… does. People forcing children to do things with animals… I’ll stop there…

            The U.S. constitution supports free speech. Even it has limits. You can’t yell fire in a movie theater and not face the consequences of injuries your speech causes.

            • mc1472@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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              1 year ago

              You in fact can yell fire in a theater without being arrested. It depends on the context (and weather or not there where injuries)

              If the play calls for it and an actor says it. Or more simply if the theater is on fire.

              With speech laws it matters more what the context is to the intended audience than what is specifically said.

          • CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net
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            1 year ago

            Fascism isn’t an ideology that gets defeated in the marketplace of ideas. It’s core belief is enabling a small minority to violently destroy other lives. It’s not worth your consideration.

          • hare_ware@pawb.social
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            1 year ago

            I agree with this, but some beliefs are well… utterly stupid and not worth reconsidering. It’s a waste of time really.

            • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              It’s the deciding which ones are worthless that gets dangerous, particularly when “worthless” involves prison sentences.

      • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.social
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        1 year ago

        Blocking instances actually makes the lives of instance admins a lot easier. It not only reduces a whole chunk of problematic content for you to moderate, but it also encourages Nazis to go to the servers you block instead of yours. Nazis can’t subscribe to the subs they want to on your server, and they get banned if they say Nazi shit, so they just leave and go to a Nazi server instead. It’s like fly paper for Nazis lol.

        As a Mastodon admin with a few thousand users, I rarely see Nazi content that I have to moderate. And that’s because when I started I spent an enormous amount of time sifting through every server we federated with and blocking all of the Nazis and all the pedos and all the TERFs. And because I did that at the start, I only get maybe 10 reports a week, none of them are content that would traumatize me (almost always spam), and I also helped the servers that now use my list to do the same.

        Blocking instances not only makes it easier for me to do my job, it encourages other admins to not tolerate these kinds of behaviors as well. Because if they don’t moderate well, that attracts Nazis, and then we have to limit or ban them because we’re volunteers. So everyone just ends up blocking the shittiest servers and moderates their user base well. It’s a win/win for everyone.

        Nazis are not entitled to access to minorities on my server. TERFs are not entitled to access to trans users on my server. Assholes are not entitled to have access to an audience on my server. There are tons of white supremacists or TERFs or other assholes hosting plenty of other servers where they can go and do that. But I don’t want that on servers I host and my users don’t want that on servers I host. If you truly believe free speech is such a big fucking deal, then you are welcome to leave and join one of those rotting servers as well. See how fun that is for you and how long it takes for you to come crawling back.

  • nikmis@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I hope the nazis do stay out because I was really excited for voat for about a day until it became nazi town

    • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.net
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      You can’t hope they stay out. Admins and moderators have to take active steps to push them out. I want to give some kudos to lemmy.world for getting out in front of this, and I want to name and shame sh.itjust.works for having a vote in their agora community almost a week ago and then proceeding to do nothing

      • laxe@lemmy.ml
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        Moderating is time consuming, tedious and done by volunteers. I’m not surprised that they get overrun after the latest influx of users.

        • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.net
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          1 year ago

          It’s why my primary instance of beehaw elected to just defederate and sort things out later instead of desperately trying to navigate a flood of scumbags. The key will be implementing better tools and getting more people on board for community curation

    • averagedrunk@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      I received a modest amount of downvotes on the big R for saying something similar.

      I also commented (well, asked a rhetorical question but definitely got answers) here a couple of days ago that places that claim to be for free thought and expression tend to be full of either harmful garbage or nonsense conspiracy theories.

      All it’s going to take is one instance that isn’t defederated with a jailbait community or someone with a poorly trained militia planning an act of terrorism to get Lemmy or kbin painted with the “great place for pedos” or “Nazi haven” brush.

      • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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        I think the thing that makes lemmy and kbin difficult concepts for normies will also protect it from blanket association with nazis if one instance is infiltrated. Most people don’t fully understand the distinction between the shared protocol and a site’s domain.

        People might think “lemmy is full of nazis”, but it won’t mean anything to them if I say i’m hanging out on midwest.social. To them it’ll just sound like a regional blog website.

      • Sojourn@geddit.social
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        We’re making fun of the people. They’re welcome to use the fedi, and it’s for everyone. But they’re still dumbass Nazis lol. We defederate because we don’t want to hear their same copy&paste racist talking points over and over.

      • vis4valentine@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Most get fedederated. Once I got raided by Nazis on Mastodon who sent me a lot of dead threats and poorly made anti trans. I messaged my friend who manages the backend of our instance and we defederated like 20 instances that day.

        • grue@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Most get fedederated.

          “fe-dead-erated”

          LOL, now that’s a spicy malapropism!

  • CB Bản Đỏ@lemmy.world
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    As long as I found the Nazi disturbing, the “denialism” in Tianmen square massacre or gulag or Ussr stalin purge or Uyghurs genocide from the far-left ideology is as much disturbing as the same from the far-right one. Just because this instance seems leftish and anti-Nazi, it doesn’t leverage itself to a better position.

    • chomza@lemmy.ml
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      Yeah extreme ideologies are bad, but instead of talking left vs right, which is pointless as you are trying to comp genocidal maniacs against eachother. They are all totalitarian evil, we put extra labels on so we can pick sides.

      how about we consider why groups want control over your life. The left cares for society and group rights, the right cares for individual rights. I could argue the value of both, but we are overpopulated and the desires of the individual shouldn’t be valued greater than that of a society, our environment, quality of life, right to health and security from violence and economic greed. Im not saying the left is good at what they do but at least they try to manage the mess instead of arrogantly assuming market forces, churches or the metaphysical can or will solve peoples unnecessary suffering.

      • CB Bản Đỏ@lemmy.world
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        Sorry just because you (or “we”) would love to put labels to pick sides, it doesn’t mean I belong to your described “labels” or “sides” because I treat far left and far right are the same. Maybe some political compasses can help. I don’t take sides. I agreed with the problems you think. Maybe you can try to stop putting labels (or picking sides) so that it might help to provide for some perspective angles. Wish you the best

  • BornVolcano@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Image Transcription: Meme


    [‘Let me in’ - a two panel image of a man standing outside a closed metal gate, and shaking it vigorously in the second panel. This variant has the face of a yelling Adolph Hitler placed over the usual face in the meme, and a Nazi symbol swastika is placed on the person’s left arm in the first panel. The fediverse logo, a rainbow pentagram, is positioned over the gate in the first panel]

    LET ME IN

    LET ME INNNNNN!!!


    ^I’m a human volunteer transcribing posts in a format compatible with screen readers, for blind and visually impaired users!^