They already have a platform It’s called 4chan
And Voat and Gab and Truth
And Parler, which is just as dead as the other three.
See, that’s the thing: there’s a reason why all of the “free speech” (read: nazi safe space) services are either dead or dying. It’s because the nazis don’t actually want their own platform; instead, they specifically want to come infest everybody else’s in order to spread their hate. They’re less a community, and more a disease.
Well, not Voat any more.
Didn’t voat shut down?
Ahh, I wasn’t aware
They probably won’t ever stay fully out, since anyone can make an instance, just up to mods and individuals to block them and not federate with obvious natzi communities.
Utopia has always been a process, never a destination. You will never be able to elect humans that will act in your interests forever. You must stay alert and aware of the happenings around you and constantly advocate for yourself and those who can’t.
I hope the nazis do stay out because I was really excited for voat for about a day until it became nazi town
You can’t hope they stay out. Admins and moderators have to take active steps to push them out. I want to give some kudos to lemmy.world for getting out in front of this, and I want to name and shame sh.itjust.works for having a vote in their agora community almost a week ago and then proceeding to do nothing
Moderating is time consuming, tedious and done by volunteers. I’m not surprised that they get overrun after the latest influx of users.
It’s why my primary instance of beehaw elected to just defederate and sort things out later instead of desperately trying to navigate a flood of scumbags. The key will be implementing better tools and getting more people on board for community curation
I received a modest amount of downvotes on the big R for saying something similar.
I also commented (well, asked a rhetorical question but definitely got answers) here a couple of days ago that places that claim to be for free thought and expression tend to be full of either harmful garbage or nonsense conspiracy theories.
All it’s going to take is one instance that isn’t defederated with a jailbait community or someone with a poorly trained militia planning an act of terrorism to get Lemmy or kbin painted with the “great place for pedos” or “Nazi haven” brush.
I think the thing that makes lemmy and kbin difficult concepts for normies will also protect it from blanket association with nazis if one instance is infiltrated. Most people don’t fully understand the distinction between the shared protocol and a site’s domain.
People might think “lemmy is full of nazis”, but it won’t mean anything to them if I say i’m hanging out on midwest.social. To them it’ll just sound like a regional blog website.
Is there a running list of bigot instances that I can block?
There is! Browse by instances like lemmy.blahaj.zone/instances, beehaw.org/instances or lemmy.dbzer0.com/instances. They have the most up to date list of people-commonly-disagreed-with-by-lefties. You can start blocking right away 😊
beehaw? the instance that blocked lemmy.world
yup, they block many things, so if u wanna block many many things, why not start looking at what ppl who block many many things block?
The problem with these lists is that people sneak things on to them.
I’m an admin on (and owner of) lemmy.ninja. We have clear anti-harassment rules, up front, in bold, front page. We have zero bots (checked daily). We have users that are LGBTQIA+. I have zero tolerance for bigotry.
Yet our site is on the lists provided.
Apparently it doesn’t matter (the lists don’t work) because all of my cross posts (from my boomer shooter community) are available on beehaw.org in their gaming section.
So these lists can be used as weapons, if they work. When thy don’t work they are just an indictment without evidence.
Yet our site is on the lists provided.
you’re wrong, your site is allowed by all the lists I mentioned.
So these lists can be used as weapons, if they work
These lists are not weapons, they are provided by the instances themselves. They are not false or artificial. They are current, and they display exactly what is real in the configuration of the servers.
So these lists are both block AND allow lists? Or are they just allow lists?
There are 3 categories in settings on your server, as far as I know: Linked, Allowed and Blocked. I don’t know the difference between Linked and Allowed, but yes, these links contain multiple lists on the same page. The format is the following: https://domain.tld/instances, you will normally find from 1 to 3 lists there, (the Linked, Allowed and Blocked lists). Linked is normal, Blocked is defederated. Idk what Allowed is but I think it is also federated so 🤷
Linked are servers that your server knows about (that have communicated with it)
Allowed, or the allow-list, if present means that the server can only federate with servers in the allow list. This is the most restrictive setting possible.
Block, or disallow-list, means that these servers may not federate with yours. This is where servers go generally when they are “defederated”.
Damn I think beehaw is there? I think they have an allow list.
Thank you for the clarification. The problem I have is:
Note that dbzer0 on the federation-checker.vercel.app shows we are being blocked. fba.ryona.agency shows that too, and apparently we are edgelords,don’t moderate, and have done something wrong with free speech…
So something somewhere is broken…
The problem with dbzer0 is the same we had talked about before (edit: I talked with someone else from lemmy.ninja about this topic, your instance was blocked before). It’s old news. It’s from when you had a bot problem. Ryona has a cache and doesn’t clear it too often.
The problem with toot.foundation has nothing to do with that, though. I have no idea why they would block you. You can find the up to date list of blocked instances on a mastodon by going to the https://instance.tld/about. For example, for toot.foundation, which does block lemmy.ninja, here is the updated blocklist at the bottom, you have to click Moderated servers: https://toot.foundation/about
Ah yes, block entire instances en masse without the hassle of actually making the decision yourself, that would be nice
Nazi’s deserve to be named, shamed, and ignored.
I run my own instance so that i can take a little control over the drivel that scrolls past my eyes. Far right ideologies don’t deserve a platform or an audience.
How do yoy feel about far left ideologies?
Evergreen meme:
Imagine thinking far left and far right are equivalent.
Love ‘em!
pretty based ngl
Considering it’s their own instance, it doesn’t matter.
Pretty good, those are the best.
Idk, gonna be a very hot take, but I like my beliefs challenged and believe that everyone deserves a voice
The world came together in WWII and decided that Nazis didn’t deserve a place at the table. There’s a difference between “let’s decide whose economic policy is more useful now” and “hey I want everyone to have a nice life and these guys think a large chunk of the world doesn’t deserve to live at all.”
I like my beliefs challenged
you like it when “other people should be treated as people as a bare minimum” is getting challenged? because that’s the belief that your average xeno-/homo-/transphobic asshole challenges. Many beliefs I have ought to be challenged on the regular, but not THAT one
Idk, gonna be a very hot take, but I like my beliefs challenged and believe that everyone deserves a voice
Nazis had a voice once, and folks listened to them. And we ended up with the Holocaust.
Might be controversial but I don’t believe that people who want to murder minorities deserve a voice. I feel like that’s a pretty reasonable bar to set lol.
Might be controversial but I don’t believe that people who want to murder minorities deserve a voice. I feel like that’s a pretty reasonable bar to set lol.
It’s not controversial at all. The only people making “controversy” out of it are the ones who are mad they can’t spew hate
Sure, but did they actually say they want to murder minorities?? I’m yet to see that
Deserving a voice is in no way the same as deserving an audience.
So you ban the “everyone deserves a voice” types? Because that’s what I said.
@kityr don’t try and sealion your way around making excuses for nazis
Tf is to sealion?? And I’d like to see the nazis you seem to be unable to not mention in a comment. What I’ve seen is that instances are defederating from exploding-heads. I’ve gone there, seen some edgier memes, some christianity oriented memes, some better memes(those three not being the same memes obv, the Biden ones are pretty unfunny). I’ve seen some honestly sensible policies - instead of banning people for using le bad words, they encourage people who are sensitive to such stuff to block and move on. You seem to call people fucking Nazis for using language that offends you, right?
The problem is, this isn’t just a challenge to beliefs. This is the internet. The darkest most depraved shit that can exist… does. People forcing children to do things with animals… I’ll stop there…
The U.S. constitution supports free speech. Even it has limits. You can’t yell fire in a movie theater and not face the consequences of injuries your speech causes.
You in fact can yell fire in a theater without being arrested. It depends on the context (and weather or not there where injuries)
If the play calls for it and an actor says it. Or more simply if the theater is on fire.
With speech laws it matters more what the context is to the intended audience than what is specifically said.
Fascism isn’t an ideology that gets defeated in the marketplace of ideas. It’s core belief is enabling a small minority to violently destroy other lives. It’s not worth your consideration.
I agree with this, but some beliefs are well… utterly stupid and not worth reconsidering. It’s a waste of time really.
It’s the deciding which ones are worthless that gets dangerous, particularly when “worthless” involves prison sentences.
Blocking instances actually makes the lives of instance admins a lot easier. It not only reduces a whole chunk of problematic content for you to moderate, but it also encourages Nazis to go to the servers you block instead of yours. Nazis can’t subscribe to the subs they want to on your server, and they get banned if they say Nazi shit, so they just leave and go to a Nazi server instead. It’s like fly paper for Nazis lol.
As a Mastodon admin with a few thousand users, I rarely see Nazi content that I have to moderate. And that’s because when I started I spent an enormous amount of time sifting through every server we federated with and blocking all of the Nazis and all the pedos and all the TERFs. And because I did that at the start, I only get maybe 10 reports a week, none of them are content that would traumatize me (almost always spam), and I also helped the servers that now use my list to do the same.
Blocking instances not only makes it easier for me to do my job, it encourages other admins to not tolerate these kinds of behaviors as well. Because if they don’t moderate well, that attracts Nazis, and then we have to limit or ban them because we’re volunteers. So everyone just ends up blocking the shittiest servers and moderates their user base well. It’s a win/win for everyone.
Nazis are not entitled to access to minorities on my server. TERFs are not entitled to access to trans users on my server. Assholes are not entitled to have access to an audience on my server. There are tons of white supremacists or TERFs or other assholes hosting plenty of other servers where they can go and do that. But I don’t want that on servers I host and my users don’t want that on servers I host. If you truly believe free speech is such a big fucking deal, then you are welcome to leave and join one of those rotting servers as well. See how fun that is for you and how long it takes for you to come crawling back.
Just let them have their of naziverse. I don’t want to see it.
I’m a bit out of loop, are there more info to share about?
There’s a lemmy server where a lot of alt-right and more extreme views have sub-lemmys. It got defederated by Lemmy.World and others and now they’re upset that most people on other servers don’t get to see their hate-speech.
What’s the URI of the defederated server? I want to know in order to stay away from it. Really.
They’re called “communities”, not “sublemmys”. Lol.
“sublemmys” is a great silly name, though
Oh I love more and more lemmy! Its just incredible they can create their own server full of stupid ideas and we stay away from that drama
W
What server?
Maybe better not say it, so we don’t give them attention
I did a quick check of the frontpage of the server and didn’t find anything that extreme. Can you show me some nazi related posts?
No. Why would I want to?
You’re right. Just call everybody the names you want regardless if they are accurate or not. If it’s fashionable enough it will stick everytime, so who cares right?
What are you referring to?
Everybody in this post is calling the server nazis.
I went there and at least in the frontpage there were only edgy right wing memes and some normal posts. But no white supremacy stuff or something related to that.
So I asked if someone could show me the posts that made them call the server nazis. And instead of a reply, I only got downvotes. Because god forbid you ask people why they consider others nazis.
All I’ve seen so far was that there was a (inactive) The_Donald community on one of the bigger instances, which sparked a bit of drama…
I’m sorta embarrassed that it’s on my instance. As you point out it’s inactive. Also our community has been very much active in discussing removing them and what to do about them. We are definitely not complicit in it.
and it closed down in 5 minutes
overreaction
Nah, there was another thing. Link here
Definitely a good move to defederate that cesspit
Out of the loop. Can someone give me a short explanation?
The instance at exploding-heads.com got defederated from by a lot of instances and among them the largest one lemmy.world
It happened due to them allowing hatespeech like “tranny faggot”. Top post now is complaining about how the rest is sensitive libs and in the same breath call “Joe Biden is a pedo”. They’re throwing a tantrum about how they’re getting cancelled because they can’t smell the shit under their own shoe.It’s not necessary to repeat the hate speech they got defederated over, you can just say “transphobic/homophobic slurs”.
But the words themselves don’t mean anything more than the context they’re used in. I absolutely think you should be able to freely write the bad words that you are talking about to better explain what happened instead of censoring it. It’s obvious that op used it to spread information and not in a negative context, isn’t it?
Yes, there’s a difference between use and mention, but slurs are still slurs even outside of a negative context or without hateful intent.
Repeating slurs isn’t always necessary and can sometimes still be emotionally draining for the targetted group to see even outside of the negative context. Just something to keep in mind.
I completely respect your opinion! And I see where you are coming from.
Sorry for hijacking your comment, it’s the first one that popped up for me when I opened this thread.
If you’re just discovering this post, trust me, it’s not worth reading. The comments are 50% nazis and 50% morons. There is no discourse ahead, only name calling, denouncing, whataboutism, and some really fucked up thoughts and people. You don’t need this in your day. You already know that nazis are bad, and nazis aren’t the only bad people. Go to illegallysmolcats instead
Like always, the intolerant people expect to be tolerated, and when they aren’t they bitch about free speech
Nazi leemings… Go fuck yourself!
Some real controversial hot take right here
It was a play on “nazi punks fuck off” and “Russian Warship, Go Fuck Yourself”. But have it you’re way.
Gab users be like
unfortunately there are a ton of fascists and fascist instances on fedi
We’re making fun of the people. They’re welcome to use the fedi, and it’s for everyone. But they’re still dumbass Nazis lol. We defederate because we don’t want to hear their same copy&paste racist talking points over and over.
Most get fedederated. Once I got raided by Nazis on Mastodon who sent me a lot of dead threats and poorly made anti trans. I messaged my friend who manages the backend of our instance and we defederated like 20 instances that day.
Most get fedederated.
“fe-dead-erated”
LOL, now that’s a spicy malapropism!
Fuck fascism mkay
Lemmy in!
Please Lemmy off Mr. Huffman’s wild ride!..
Image Transcription: Meme
[‘Let me in’ - a two panel image of a man standing outside a closed metal gate, and shaking it vigorously in the second panel. This variant has the face of a yelling Adolph Hitler placed over the usual face in the meme, and a Nazi symbol swastika is placed on the person’s left arm in the first panel. The fediverse logo, a rainbow pentagram, is positioned over the gate in the first panel]
LET ME IN
LET ME INNNNNN!!!
^I’m a human volunteer transcribing posts in a format compatible with screen readers, for blind and visually impaired users!^
Good human
I love that this is being continued here. Where are y’all organizing?
As of right now, I’m transcribing freelance. I’m not sure if or when an organized effort will move to Lemmy.
As long as I found the Nazi disturbing, the “denialism” in Tianmen square massacre or gulag or Ussr stalin purge or Uyghurs genocide from the far-left ideology is as much disturbing as the same from the far-right one. Just because this instance seems leftish and anti-Nazi, it doesn’t leverage itself to a better position.
Yeah extreme ideologies are bad, but instead of talking left vs right, which is pointless as you are trying to comp genocidal maniacs against eachother. They are all totalitarian evil, we put extra labels on so we can pick sides.
how about we consider why groups want control over your life. The left cares for society and group rights, the right cares for individual rights. I could argue the value of both, but we are overpopulated and the desires of the individual shouldn’t be valued greater than that of a society, our environment, quality of life, right to health and security from violence and economic greed. Im not saying the left is good at what they do but at least they try to manage the mess instead of arrogantly assuming market forces, churches or the metaphysical can or will solve peoples unnecessary suffering.
Sorry just because you (or “we”) would love to put labels to pick sides, it doesn’t mean I belong to your described “labels” or “sides” because I treat far left and far right are the same. Maybe some political compasses can help. I don’t take sides. I agreed with the problems you think. Maybe you can try to stop putting labels (or picking sides) so that it might help to provide for some perspective angles. Wish you the best
Neither of those are denied by anyone here, shoo
Make sure the mods don’t read it
I like the mythic quest approach
Lol thats perfect. Link for the uninitiated:
Whelp, the paradox of tolerance comes into mind here.
as a jewish person… all i have to say is what the fuc
It’s the internet, there’s Nazis everywhere. I got to see how they work (on the internet) because they converted a long time acquaintance of mine. I’m going to start working on some mod tools to help shut their bullshit down once work stops being a shitnado.
Sorry to hear about your acquaintance. Fuck nazi and thank you we need people to make sure we keep them the fuck out. Fuck nazi and I believe it’s only time punching someone wouldn’t be considered violent since to me a nazi isn’t a person our worth being considered human. But fucking monsters.
Fyi: Dehumanizing humans was a core feature of the Nazi ideology.
But it’s ok to dehumanize someone who I disagree with. /s.
There’s a difference between “I don’t respect this person’s humanity” based on traits they were born with versus active choices and decisions that person has made. I would define one of the core human traits as care and empathy for others, and I don’t think Nazis demonstrate that trait
They don’t. Neither do most CEO and all billionaires. They have no empathy and in some cases enjoy causing suffering. Especially on those they deem lesser than themselves.
To me that makes them not human. But nazis are whole other beast and I think it perfectly fine to shoot them into the sun.
I’m not going to join your ride on the slippery slope of dehumanization. You need to get to grips with the reallity that your rosy fiction of what humans should be is not what humans are. Your jump to dehumanization is a perfect illustration of a not so nice human trait that enabled some of the most horrible episodes of human history. Be better than that.
There’s not really nazis, at least not many. People on the internet view right leaning views as literal nazis these days.
Except they are
Nazis were a political movement and party in WW2 Germany. The people who hate black people and Jews these days do not align at all with that party. There’s actual terms like Neonazi which is rare as well, or White Supremacist. The problem with using Nazi to define anybody currently is that in most online spaces a Nazi is not somebody who wants to exterminate the Jews and create a white world, but somebody you just disagree with and think is mean.
I will never tire of people who do not grasp linguistics trying to be pedantic about words.
In a living language, words mean whatever people currently use them to mean. This is how “literally” literally doesn’t mean “literally” anymore. Most people use Nazi to refer to both 1930s German National Socialists and modern day white supremacists. Therefore, that’s what it means. English is not a dead language like Latin, so stop trying to treat it like one with regards to this one word. It just makes you look like a Nazi.
And pro-Trump Republicans are neither of those things. There may be some white supremacists in their club but by no means is it a requirement. All I see from them is delusions and shitposting.
The entire republican party is currently lockstep saying all trans folk are trying to corrupt, if not molest, children. They’re promising national legislation to oppress and punish them if they win. Before them, it was Mexicans and Muslims. They always have a group of “others” to scapegoat, and given enough time and power they always eventually act on it.
“Never again” means we’re supposed to recognize and stop this behavior before it can harm anybody, not wait until it’s too late as we disingenuously quibble over definitions.
Oh I’m sorry, does it hurt the feelings of neonazis and white supremacists if I call them Nazis? Thank goodness someone told me. I’ll be sure to keep calling them Nazis from now on
It hurts the power of labeling something as Nazis when it’s just somebody you don’t like.
So when men march wearing black balaclava and waving actual nazi flags, calling themselves nazis and intimidating vulnerable minorities with violence, you don’t call them Nazis? Really?
Edit: This is neither hypothetical nor a unique occurrence
More likely neo-Nazis than actual Nazis if not pure edge lords. I think the best way to refer to them is untermensch because the actual Nazis would have seen them as lesser which I find hilarious and should insult them thoroughly. They deserve mockery and derision.
Bah… you can argue semantics all day long, I have no qualm calling these alt-right fucks nazis. Just look at the dumpsterfire that voat.co became. Nazis comes close enough to describe that.
I can tell you TheDonald didn’t like it either. That’s why they left. The free speech absolutist policies meant they got called out all the time and they couldn’t handle it.
they really are not
Found the Nazi. Get the fuck out of here.
What are you, retarded?
