• betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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    3 hours ago

    Then move to China, because the chances of a dictatorship running your way are next to zero. Dictatorship means no accountability, so once it’s set up, they do as they please no matter what you say.

    • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      Then move to China

      If I spoke mandarin fluently and had a solid support network of friends and family i would. 🤷‍♂️

      Dictatorship means no accountability, so once it’s set up, they do as they please no matter what you say.

      Show me all this accountability here in the United States. A known pedophile is in office and the previous guy in office spent four years giving a huge number of his voters the finger.

      • betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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        46 minutes ago

        If it was a total dictatorship, he’d be there forever. Accountability is the elections. You have hope.

      • nexguy@lemmy.world
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        60 minutes ago

        You seem to like when the government heavily censors domestic media, the internet, and academic discourse, and actively suppresses political dissent, protests, or criticism of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Movement within China is regulated. The justice system in China has a 99% conviction rate…for whichever side supports the side of the state. Mass surveillance with no legal recourse. You wouldn’t even know if you had it good or not. Unless you are fine not knowing I suppose.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          42 minutes ago

          The west also heavily censors domestic media, the internet, academic discourse, and actively suppresses political dissent and protests, etc. The critical difference is that the west does this to protect capitalists against the working classes, while China does this to suppress capitalists and protect the socialist system. The class that controls the state uses it to oppress the others.

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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          45 minutes ago

          You’re responding to my comment where I said.

          Show me all this accountability here in the United States.

          You didn’t show me where all this accountability is. Was that an oversight on your part or are you acknowledging there isn’t any?

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      2 hours ago

      From the recent Perceptions of Democracy survey:

      China is one of the more comprehensively democratic countries on the list, with some of the fewest glaring weaknesses.

          • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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            1 hour ago

            (No idea what they’re trying to say tbh. Is that an edited image or… are they calling you out? Seriously unclear)

            PODS is an opinion poll. The way you present it implies that it speaks in any way to the actual systems of government of the country in question, when that’s just straight not what it’s about:

            […] At the same time, more respondents said their country was moving in the wrong direction. The report finds that pessimism is especially pronounced in democracies. France, Germany, Lebanon, Puerto Rico and Nigeria were among the countries where responses on national direction were most negative. China recorded the most positive responses, followed by El Salvador, Kuwait, Algeria and Belarus.

            What the infographic you’ve posted actually shows is that Chinese citizens are among the most satisfied with their government, which is for sure something, but is decidedly not the same thing as:

            China is one of the more comprehensively democratic countries on the list, with some of the fewest glaring weaknesses.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              1 hour ago

              Yes, of course it’s a survey of how people feel about their systems. Most western “democracy indexes” just define democracy loosely around whatever the Nordics are doing, and as such countries with very different democratic systems like China score very low. This shows that that’s not really accurate, the people of China like the system and believe it delivers well for what it does.

              • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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                1 hour ago

                Well, yes - this is an opinion poll, it’s not a measure based on real metrics of performance, it’s entirely based on perception.

                Which is my whole point: you stating that china is among the more comprehensively democratic countries on the list is a misuse of the infographic. You might hold that opinion, it might be true, but the image you’ve posted is completely disconnected with supporting that claim.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  58 minutes ago

                  How would you measure how comprehensively democratic a country is, if not by asking people how well it functions in getting across the will of the majority?

                  • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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                    52 minutes ago

                    I suspect I would start by setting out to write a report that attempts to answer that question, instead of one like this, which makes it very clear that it’s not a document which answers that question.

          • jwt@programming.dev
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            1 hour ago

            Thanks for the link, my point was that posting random pictures without context/methodology/sources is not very helpful.

            So the questionnaire asks people how positive/negative they perceive the categories in their own country, I’m not really sure that methodology works very well for oppressive countries.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              1 hour ago

              You can look into their methodology. While it is an imperfect method, it does track pretty well when comparing countries to each other, as well as seeing which countries have more glaring weaknesses than others. It’s already widely reported that over 90% of people support the government in China, so this tracks pretty well.

              • jwt@programming.dev
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                1 hour ago

                You can look into their methodology

                I did, my opinion is that obviously that’s not a very smart way of conducting the questionnaire.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  1 hour ago

                  It’s better in many ways than the standard western way of simply defining democracy by whatever the Nordics are doing, and then ranking everyone else accordingly. China has a very different democratic model than western countries, and so usually fails a lot of checks that are only checking for norms within western style democracies. This ranking helps take into account differences in model towards more socialist democracy by checking how the people feel.

                  • jwt@programming.dev
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                    1 hour ago

                    I’m not comparing it to anything, I’m judging it at face value, and it doesn’t pass the smell test. It leads to countries with a one-party system getting scored +5 on pluralism. That ‘does not track’.