The country I’m in and global order that most other Lemmy users are in is in fact at war with Korea. It’s not nuanced to make some kind of weird fucking image like exists at the head of this post, when our society is at war with Korea, all it does is justify intervention in Korea and demonize those who don’t want to spend billions of dollars fighting a war overseas that helps nobody on the planet except for the billionaire class.
Again, I’m not claiming to agree with the post. My point was that simply because you are not from the country doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t have discourse about the conflict there. I think this whole comment section is a chance to educate people about a topic most people normally only get highly biased takes over, even if it the topic is originally broached via a mischaracterization.
Right now, the Korean Peninsula is split solidly in half between the resistance forces that freed it from Japanese occupation and those who collaborated with American intervention. That’s just a fact.
That’s a gross oversimplification that completely glosses over the Soviet s role in shaping North Korea. Yes, American intervention in the South is markedly worse. However, that doesn’t negate the fact that the Soviet union did not allow the North to govern itself independently, and that has led to the Kim family purging some of the greatest minds in modern Korean history. The Soviet Union and America both agreed in 1945 to split responsibility of the nation in two, and they both ignorantly installed leaders based solely on their estimation on who would be most easily controlled.
Just because it was founded by resistance fighters doesn’t mean it’s a society without issues. But our society going to war with it only exacerbates those issues and doesn’t allow it to develop.
Right, but talking about a country does not mean you’re advocating for a foreign intervention. Your argument is based on an idea that discourse always has negative outcomes, and I just don’t think that holds much weight. Nothing in anything I’ve stated has supported foreign intervention, none of your arguments are aimed at anything I’ve been saying.
So, no. Smearing an anti-imperialist stance as somehow dismissive colonialism isn’t right. It’s in fact quite the opposite.
You didn’t make an anti-imperialist stance. You stated people not from the country in question have a right to speak about it. I’m completely fine with smearing an anti-imperialist stance. By ending discourse you end the conversation before people can actually rebute the imperialism, or even explain the negative outcomes of foreign intervention.
It’s the approach that societies and people within them should be free to choose their destiny without external colonial interference that attitudes like the white chauvinist one from the OP only empower.
The current problems in North Korea can also be easily be traced back to the Soviets role in empowering Kim il sung instead of Pak Hon-yong, or any other of the founders of the Korean Communist party.
Do you want Korean society to change for the better? Then you have to advocate against the empire wherever you live in it.
Kinda sounds like a white person telling a Korean person what’s best for Korea…not chauvinist at all…
I can advocate against American imperialism and offer critical support to a country that is also a victim of foreign meddling by a former global power exerting its control upon my own people. What I won’t do is listen to some virtue signaling white preach at me, when it’s clear they don’t even care to actually learn the history of my people.
You’re boxing ghosts, if you live in the imperial territories, your only possibility to change things is inside those imperial territories. I grew up in the United States which Jose Marti referred to as the belly of the beast. I am speaking from my own perspective as a white American. We do not have the right to dictate Korean people or Korean politics.
What many white Americans and other privileged people of the imperial territories pass of as critique is really white chauvinism in disguise, not seriously attempting to understand the systems or people that their empire is trying to crush. I’ve done my best to try and educate myself on Korean history and politics as I can as an outsider, but I don’t think it’s relevant to the ultimate and final point that those living in the imperial territories should advocate against their empire at all costs.
You can browbeat me all you want if you’d like, but it doesn’t mean anything because I know the following principles are true
This post was made by a member of the imperial core
This post doesn’t try to seriously engage with Korean politics, but instead to ridicule it from a place of chauvinism and to try and decry socialism as they see it
Weirdo racist shit that conforms to the two prior points should be dorked on and made fun of
I’m not saying that you shouldn’t seriously engage and discuss this stuff. I think if it’s relevant to you and you would like to, why not? But obviously weirdo racist shit, like the posts that we’re commenting under, is clearly not contributing to any greater understanding of Korean politics and instead seeks to demonize an entire society, which at the end of the day makes American intervention easier.
You’re boxing ghosts, if you live in the imperial territories, your only possibility to change things is inside those imperial territories. I grew up in the United States which Jose Marti referred to as the belly of the beast. I am speaking from my own perspective as a white American. We do not have the right to dictate Korean people or Korean politics.
You are again framing this as if I am attempting to dictate how other countries are governed. Educating people about other countries and how western imperialism has affected them throughout history has nothing to do with that.
What many white Americans and other privileged people of the imperial territories pass of as critique is really white chauvinism in disguise, not seriously attempting to understand the systems or people that their empire is trying to crush.
And westerners who are only critical of history through the lens of a campist perspective are also a form of white chauvinism. The Soviet Union was a white European state that interjected itself onto Korean history as well. Just because they were not as bad as the US does not give them a free pass to unlimited uncritical support.
This post was made by a member of the imperial core
This post doesn’t try to seriously engage with Korean politics, but instead to ridicule it from a place of chauvinism and to try and decry socialism as they see it
Weirdo racist shit that conforms to the two prior points should be dorked on and made fun of
You are again ignoring the fact that I never said you shouldnt be critical of the post, I am critical of the post. I am rejecting how you critiqued the post.
I’m not saying that you shouldn’t seriously engage and discuss this stuff. I think if it’s relevant to you and you would like to, why not?
You did several times…
But obviously weirdo racist shit, like the posts that we’re commenting under, is clearly not contributing to any greater understanding of Korean politics and instead seeks to demonize an entire society, which at the end of the day makes American intervention easier.
If you would have just originally posted this, I wouldn’t have any issues with it.
Again, I’m not claiming to agree with the post. My point was that simply because you are not from the country doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t have discourse about the conflict there. I think this whole comment section is a chance to educate people about a topic most people normally only get highly biased takes over, even if it the topic is originally broached via a mischaracterization.
That’s a gross oversimplification that completely glosses over the Soviet s role in shaping North Korea. Yes, American intervention in the South is markedly worse. However, that doesn’t negate the fact that the Soviet union did not allow the North to govern itself independently, and that has led to the Kim family purging some of the greatest minds in modern Korean history. The Soviet Union and America both agreed in 1945 to split responsibility of the nation in two, and they both ignorantly installed leaders based solely on their estimation on who would be most easily controlled.
Right, but talking about a country does not mean you’re advocating for a foreign intervention. Your argument is based on an idea that discourse always has negative outcomes, and I just don’t think that holds much weight. Nothing in anything I’ve stated has supported foreign intervention, none of your arguments are aimed at anything I’ve been saying.
You didn’t make an anti-imperialist stance. You stated people not from the country in question have a right to speak about it. I’m completely fine with smearing an anti-imperialist stance. By ending discourse you end the conversation before people can actually rebute the imperialism, or even explain the negative outcomes of foreign intervention.
The current problems in North Korea can also be easily be traced back to the Soviets role in empowering Kim il sung instead of Pak Hon-yong, or any other of the founders of the Korean Communist party.
Kinda sounds like a white person telling a Korean person what’s best for Korea…not chauvinist at all…
I can advocate against American imperialism and offer critical support to a country that is also a victim of foreign meddling by a former global power exerting its control upon my own people. What I won’t do is listen to some virtue signaling white preach at me, when it’s clear they don’t even care to actually learn the history of my people.
You’re boxing ghosts, if you live in the imperial territories, your only possibility to change things is inside those imperial territories. I grew up in the United States which Jose Marti referred to as the belly of the beast. I am speaking from my own perspective as a white American. We do not have the right to dictate Korean people or Korean politics.
What many white Americans and other privileged people of the imperial territories pass of as critique is really white chauvinism in disguise, not seriously attempting to understand the systems or people that their empire is trying to crush. I’ve done my best to try and educate myself on Korean history and politics as I can as an outsider, but I don’t think it’s relevant to the ultimate and final point that those living in the imperial territories should advocate against their empire at all costs.
You can browbeat me all you want if you’d like, but it doesn’t mean anything because I know the following principles are true
I’m not saying that you shouldn’t seriously engage and discuss this stuff. I think if it’s relevant to you and you would like to, why not? But obviously weirdo racist shit, like the posts that we’re commenting under, is clearly not contributing to any greater understanding of Korean politics and instead seeks to demonize an entire society, which at the end of the day makes American intervention easier.
You are again framing this as if I am attempting to dictate how other countries are governed. Educating people about other countries and how western imperialism has affected them throughout history has nothing to do with that.
And westerners who are only critical of history through the lens of a campist perspective are also a form of white chauvinism. The Soviet Union was a white European state that interjected itself onto Korean history as well. Just because they were not as bad as the US does not give them a free pass to unlimited uncritical support.
You are again ignoring the fact that I never said you shouldnt be critical of the post, I am critical of the post. I am rejecting how you critiqued the post.
You did several times…
If you would have just originally posted this, I wouldn’t have any issues with it.