hey everyone. if you want to post links or discuss the Reddit blackout, its aftermath, and what’s happening going forward, please localize it to this thread in order to keep things tidy! thanks! we’ll see if we need to cycle the thread again before the end of this week, but i don’t know that we’ll need to

@0x815@feddit.de
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01Y

BlackCat claims they hacked Reddit and will leak the data

Operators broke into Reddit on February 5, 2023, and took 80 gigabytes (zipped) of data. Reddit was emailed twice by operators, once on April 13 and one again on June 16.

There was no attempt to find out what we took.

In our last email to them, we stated that we wanted $4.5 million in exchange for the deletion of the data and our silence. As we also stated, if we had to make this public, then we now demand that they also withdraw their API pricing changes along with our money or we will leak it.

We expect to leak the data.

comicallycluttered
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31Y

Welp.

Looks like a lot of mods are caving.

The excuse: “if the mods didn’t open the sub, they’ll replace them with shills”. 'Kay. And now that we know these mods will do what the admins ask when their precious power is threatened?

Well, I guess sabotage is valid approach, so I give the mods who are doing that at least a bit of credit.

/r/pics is making a stand in its own weird way.

/r/Steam just caved without much of a fight, if their sticky is anything to go by. While the mods aren’t doing anything, it does seem like there’s a bit of a user revolt where a few people are just posting pictures of literal water vapor (ie. “steam”).

/r/piracy mods seemed to give them enough of an issue that the admins de-modded the top mod and forced the sub open, but the mods seems to be taking the approach of “only sticking around to give you the coordinates to our new island”.

Honestly, though, it’s kind of hilarious that reddit considers /r/piracy of all subs to be integral to the site. How many times have they tried to shut it down now?

Everyone on that sub should just spam Nintendo stuff. Like, nothing else. Watching reddit piss off Nintendo and getting C&Ds from them would be oddly cathartic.

One of two things happens if people do that: A) the mods trying to “save” it have to actually keep it restricted to prevent getting DMCAs (lol, the irony), or B) admins just nuke the sub. Either are a win, IMO. Seems like they’re giving their users enough time to migrate and they’re probably going to jump ship soon.

Huffman / spez is trying to follow the same outrage farming playbook that countless other rich guys like Trump and Musk have followed.

  1. Gain money and/or control over something prominent that more or less works
  2. Identify targets that you want to hurt or screw over
  3. Make big changes that damage the thing you control with no time for your targets to adjust
  4. When your targets complain or protest, double down and don’t apologize or change course
  5. Cultivate a critical mass of smoothbrained useful idiots that enjoy the way you stick to your guns and hurt others
  6. ???
  7. Profit. Literally. You’ll have a smaller base, but they’re loyal and you can make money off of them.

The question is whether spez will get to step 5. He’s already gotten to step 4.

@melismae@beehaw.org
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121Y

https://www.platformer.news/p/reddit-doubles-down

According to Casey Newton, “It seems also notable that Reddit is moving to centralize control of its ecosystem at the precise time that the rest of industry has begun to explore more federated models. When even Meta is preparing to launch a decentralized social network, it’s fair to ask whether Reddit has misread the moment.”

My take: Reddit’s API/IPO debacle puts them on the wrong side of history, as they double down on an outdated and unpopular social media model. Times are changing. What do you think?

I can only imagine that 5his wasn’t a recent interview, but I know it’s not the case. He’s completely lost it. Very out of touch with what made Reddit Reddit.

I continue to be mystified at this. I couldn’t make this many wrong decisions if I tried.

@Nicktar@beehaw.org
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91Y

German it magazine iX has an interview with the mods of r/de. I don’t know if this was mentioned here before…

Interview (German)

Short summary: the mods of the large German communities see a huge issue with reddit not recognizing content creators and mods work and there seems to be growing support for an ongoing blackout or so they say.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/16/23763661/reddit-rif-is-fun-developer-ceo-steve-huffman

RIF developer pushing back on Huffman’s claims that RIF didn’t want to work with Reddit by releasing emails.

inb4 spez rants about him releasing private email conversations.

@Toxic_Tiger@beehaw.org
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41Y

Woah. I mean, that article nails his whole attitude. It’s so depressing to see what was such a great site come crashing down because of one tech-bro’s hubris.

Rentlar
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111Y

https://9to5mac.com/2023/06/15/reddit-blackout-third-party-apps/

Loving the Reddit dumpster fire thumbnail image they included. Mostly covering TheVerge’s Huffman interview and pointing out how dumb he sounds as CEO.

@darkmugglet@lemm.ee
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51Y

That article sums up my view pretty well. Huffman has alienated his users, advertisers and potential employees. Reddit is changing the symbiotic relationship between itself and the third party ecosystem that made Reddit was it is today, and has gone full parasite.

But agreed, the Reddit dumpster fire pic is awesome.

@trashhalo@beehaw.org
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371Y

https://mastodon.social/@robotdeathsquad/110543755195398954

Every time you hear the Reddit CEO talking about how they need to become profitable, remember they raised $250m and then spent the last couple years building this: https://nft.reddit.com

I thought I had cringe resistance.

pbjamm
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131Y

What.The.Fuck.

Sorry. I am at a loss for words.

Anyone willing to copy it here for those with privacy browsers?

@toastio@beehaw.org
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7
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1Y

Here ya go…

The basic idea of most websites is to create content, attract an audience, and then sell advertising that targets your audience. If your website attracts a large enough audience, you can make a good business out of selling advertising.

Of course, if you build a website where your audience volunteers to create the content for free, and you still get to show them ads, that sounds like a really good business. That’s basically all social media websites, though some of them (Facebook) are much better than others (Twitter).

Reddit is an interesting case because not only do the people who use the website create all of the content, but they also do almost all of the heavy lifting of managing and moderating the site. That sounds like a really good gig, except Reddit hasn’t ever really managed to make money. Yes, it gets all the content for free and sells ads, but not nearly to an extent that makes a profit.

There’s another problem, which is that if you give people a lot of control over your website, you’ll build a thriving community–which seems like a good thing–but if you want to make changes that affect your community, they might get upset. They might even decide to protest. Considering the amount of control you gave them over your website, it doesn’t seem ideal to have them angry or protesting.

That’s Reddit.

On Monday, more than 7,000 Subreddits, the name for individual communities within the site, went private, effectively taking those parts of the website down. At some point, Reddit–in its entirety–went down.

The protest comes in response to Reddit’s decision to start charging for its API access. That API is used for things like scooping up Reddit’s content to train large language models (LLMs) used by A.I. chatbots like ChatGPT. It’s also used for creating third-party apps like Apollo, whose developer, Christian Selig, said last week that it should be shutting down because of the fact Reddit’s API fees would cost him more than $20 million a year. For context, Selig says Apollo makes about $500,000 a year.

Ostensibly, that’s exactly what Reddit’s CEO, Steve Huffman, wants. During an AMA last week, Huffman didn’t hide his disdain for third-party apps that make a profit, even while Reddit does not. The thing is, if that’s the case, he should have just said, “Hey, we’re cutting off third-party access to our API for creating client apps since we don’t make any money off of them.”

Instead, Huffman said he’s happy to work with third-party apps, but it’s obvious that’s just a thing you say when you know none of them have the money to keep going. Reddit is under pressure to become profitable as it reportedly prepares for an IPO, and as investors have stopped putting in new money.

This brings me to Elon Musk and Twitter. Earlier this year, Twitter pulled the plug on third-party developers. The difference is that the company was pretty clear that it just no longer wanted them to exist. If you’re going to use Twitter, the company wants you to use its website or its own app. Again, the reason isn’t hard to understand–Twitter doesn’t make any money from anyone using a third-party app because they don’t see Twitter’s ads.

If you’re going to kill off your partners–who do bring value to your platform, even if you can’t see it on the bottom line–you should just be honest about it. You should just say, “Hey, it’s been a nice ride, but we’re doing this differently from now on.” That isn’t to say that it isn’t going to ruin some small businesses, but if that’s your goal, you should own it.

Sure, Musk took heat for killing off popular apps like Twitterific and Tweetbot. I’m sure plenty of people would disagree with this decision. It’s not like Musk’s Twitter hasn’t been one chaotic move after another. At least, in this case, no one was pretending it was about anything other than getting everyone on the official platforms.

On the other hand, Huffman wants to pretend this is all about LLMs or something else. This is purely about trying to find any way to increase revenue per user (which, again, is zero if you’re using a third-party app) ahead of going public.

Huffman even doubled down in a note to employees that was first reported by The Verge:

There's a lot of noise with this one. Among the noisiest we've seen. Please know that our teams are on it, and like all blowups on Reddit, this one will pass as well. The most important things we can do right now are stay focused, adapt to challenges, and keep moving forward.

Calling your users “noise” is maybe not the best way to win over your most important stakeholders. Instead, you just end up alienating the people you’re going to need to make your business successful.

That’s the worst thing you can do in any business, but especially when if you built it on the goodwill of your users and partners. Alienating them is bad enough–not being honest about it is even worse.

Edit: formatting

Thank you so much!

Maybe Reddit won’t die but I think it will die for who read this article.

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