The DPRK is a socialist country, that more than any other has been the subject of constant misinformation and mythologizing in the west. It’s the single most misunderstood state on the planet. No, it isn’t some utopia, but it instead is a real country with real people living their lives. It isn’t Mordor.
The Black Panther Party famously supported the DPRK, as do many African countries for the DPRK’s role in African liberation movements in the 20th century. Cuba maintains friendly ties. More than anything, it’s been mythologized about to the point of absurdity.
The problem with reporting on the DPRK is that information is extremely limited on what is actually going on there, at least in the English language (much can be read in Korean, Mandarin, Russian, and even Spanish). Most reports come from defectors, and said defectors are notoriously dubious in their accounts, something the WikiPedia page on Media Coverage of North Korea spells out quite clearly. These defectors are also held in confined cells for around 6 months before being released to the public in the ROK, in… unkind conditions, and pressured into divulging information. Additionally, defectors are paid for giving testemonials, and these testimonials are paid more the more severe they are. From the Wiki page:
Felix Abt, a Swiss businessman who lived in the DPRK, argues that defectors are inherently biased. He says that 70 percent of defectors in South Korea are unemployed, and selling sensationalist stories is a way for them to make a living.
Side note: there is a great documentary on the treatment of DPRK defectors titled Loyal Citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul, which interviews DPRK defectors and laywers legally defending them, if you’re curious. I also recommend My Brothers and Sisters in the North, a documentary made by a journalist from the Republic of Korea that was stripped of her citizenship for making this documentary humanizing the people in the DPRK.
In fact, the report is a propaganda piece likely geared at shoring up the rule of Kim Jong Eun, North Korea’s young and relatively new leader, said Sung-Yoon Lee, a professor of Korean studies at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University. Most likely, North Koreans don’t take the report literally, Lee told LiveScience.
“It’s more symbolic,” Lee said, adding, “My take is North Koreans don’t believe all of that, but they bring certain symbolic value to celebrating your own identify, maybe even notions of cultural exceptionalism and superiority. It boosts morale.”
Sadly, some people end up using outlandish media stories as an “acceptable outlet” for racism. By accepting uncritically narratives about “barbaric Koreans” pushing trains, eating rats, etc, it serves as a “get out of jail free” card for racists to freely agree with narratives devoid of real evidence.
It’s important to recognize that a large part of why the DPRK appears to be insular is because of UN-imposed sanctions, helmed by the US Empire. It is difficult to get accurate information on the DPRK, but not impossible; Russia, China, and Cuba all have frequent interactions and student exchanges, trade such as in the Rason special economic zone, etc, and there are videos released onto the broader internet from this.
Finally, it’s more unlikely than ever that the DPRK will collapse. The economy was estimated by the Bank of Korea (an ROK bank) to have grown by 3.7% in 2024, thanks to increased trade with Russia. The harshest period for the DPRK, the Arduous March, was in the 90s, and the government did not collapse then. That was the era of mass statvation thanks to the dissolution of the USSR and horrible weather disaster that made the already difficult agricultural climate of northern Korea even worse. Nowadays food is far more stable and the economy is growing, collapse is highly unlikely.
What I think is more likely is that these trends will continue. As the US Empire’s influence wanes, the DPRK will increase trade and interaction with the world, increasing accurate information and helping grow their economy, perhaps even enabling some form of reunification with the ROK. The US Empire leaving the peninsula is the number 1 most important task for reunification, so this is increasingly likely as the US Empire becomes untenable.
“Traitor´s Guide to North Korea” by Morten Traavik is a really good starting point for liberals to get a viewpoint from a westerner about this country :) i can highly recommend it. It´s from an artist´s point of view and demystifying the country. E.g. this dude took a Discoball around the country to take pictures because it´s fun and north koreans are… shocker… people.
What do you really know about them, when you can throw out any inconvenient fact about them as “bullshit propaganda from US”? Even China and Russia don’t have friendly relations with North Korea (although that’s started to change).
Maga nazis: you communist liberals just call everyone you disagree with nazis
Liberal nazis: you communist tankies just call everything you don’t agree with US propaganda.
Isn’t it interesting that the “We’re just saying not everyone is a nazi” crowd and the “We’re just saying not everything is US propaganda” crowd have, in practice, adopted the line that “nobody is a nazi” and " nothing is US propaganda", respectively? A neat little trick of projection. It isn’t communists who dismiss “inconvenient facts” as US propaganda, it is in fact anticommunists who uncritically accept convenient US propaganda as “facts”. We see this again and again, with every country the empire targets. If this was 2003, you would be berating us for casting doubt on the very real, totally credible story of Saddam Hussein’s WMD.
Those who learn from this pattern become communists. Those who don’t, stay liberals.
I’m not saying that there is no US propaganda against North Korea and other communist countries. Just that when you are able to dismiss everything as US propaganda you end up as far from the truth as when you blindly accept all US propaganda as true.
The reason I changed my pro-Ukraine stance was not because I debated with pro-Russia zealots on Lemmy. It was because I heard from someone who recognizes that Russia is imperfect and the war unjustified, but that Russia’s concerns were legitimate and that America clearly had a hand in causing it. I still support Ukraine’s territorial integrity BTW, just not anything like the total collapse of the Russian state.
Anyway, an acknowledgement that the North Korean state has real issues of their own making would disprove this. That information is so restricted is evidence of that.
Just that when you are able to dismiss everything as US propaganda
Except communists don’t actually do that, you just reflexively accuse us of doing that when we correctly point out US propaganda. Just like how when liberal point out nazis, maga nazis accuse them of just calling everyone nazis. It’s the exact same dynamic. You can’t give up your self-image of being reasonable, so instead you just pretend that the other person is being unreasonable when you’re met with reasonable pushback
Then you’re not looking very hard, and should try asking some good faith questions with an open mind instead of mindlessly repeating lines you’ve been fed. But seeing as you didn’t know who Hindenburg was 15 minutes ago, I have very little faith in your research skills
I remember being like you and thinking it was the most “wacky, crazy, evil” country in the world based on a bunch of YouTube videos, reddit threads and dubiously sourced Cracked listicles. Man, I thought I was so smart.
When you really think about it, why do people in the west even feel the need to have an opinion (especially negative) about the DPRK? All the propaganda is so obviously an attempt to manufacture consent to massacre Koreans again as well as to distract from any problems at home.
I think you answered this actually, it makes them feel smart. The underlying emotional cause is a sense of superiority they get to feel towards the evil eastern “regime” (which is just repackaged colonial racism, in the end), which allows them to feel better about their own lot in life. It’s the white man’s burden.
How anyone attempts to defend North Korea never ceases to blow my mind
The DPRK is a socialist country, that more than any other has been the subject of constant misinformation and mythologizing in the west. It’s the single most misunderstood state on the planet. No, it isn’t some utopia, but it instead is a real country with real people living their lives. It isn’t Mordor.
The Black Panther Party famously supported the DPRK, as do many African countries for the DPRK’s role in African liberation movements in the 20th century. Cuba maintains friendly ties. More than anything, it’s been mythologized about to the point of absurdity.
The problem with reporting on the DPRK is that information is extremely limited on what is actually going on there, at least in the English language (much can be read in Korean, Mandarin, Russian, and even Spanish). Most reports come from defectors, and said defectors are notoriously dubious in their accounts, something the WikiPedia page on Media Coverage of North Korea spells out quite clearly. These defectors are also held in confined cells for around 6 months before being released to the public in the ROK, in… unkind conditions, and pressured into divulging information. Additionally, defectors are paid for giving testemonials, and these testimonials are paid more the more severe they are. From the Wiki page:
Side note: there is a great documentary on the treatment of DPRK defectors titled Loyal Citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul, which interviews DPRK defectors and laywers legally defending them, if you’re curious. I also recommend My Brothers and Sisters in the North, a documentary made by a journalist from the Republic of Korea that was stripped of her citizenship for making this documentary humanizing the people in the DPRK.
Because of these issues, there is a long history of what we consider legitimate news sources of reporting and then walking back stories. Even the famous “120 dogs” execution ended up to have been a fabrication originating in a Chinese satirical column, reported entirely seriously and later walked back by some news outlets. The famous “unicorn lair” story ended up being a misunderstanding:
These aren’t tabloids, these are mainstream news sources. NBC News reported the 120 dogs story. Same with USA Today. The frequently reported concept of “state-mandated haircut styles”, as an example, also ended up being bogus sensationalism. People have made entire videos going over this long-running sensationalist misinformation, why it exists, and debunking some of the more absurd articles. As for Radio Free Asia, it is US-government founded and funded. There is good reason to be skeptical of reports sourced entirely from RFA about geopolitical enemies of the US Empire.
Sadly, some people end up using outlandish media stories as an “acceptable outlet” for racism. By accepting uncritically narratives about “barbaric Koreans” pushing trains, eating rats, etc, it serves as a “get out of jail free” card for racists to freely agree with narratives devoid of real evidence.
It’s important to recognize that a large part of why the DPRK appears to be insular is because of UN-imposed sanctions, helmed by the US Empire. It is difficult to get accurate information on the DPRK, but not impossible; Russia, China, and Cuba all have frequent interactions and student exchanges, trade such as in the Rason special economic zone, etc, and there are videos released onto the broader internet from this.
In fact, many citizens who flee the DPRK actually seek to return, and are denied by the ROK. Even BBC is reporting on a high-profile case where a 95 year old veteran wishes to be buried in his homeland, sparking protests by pro-reunification activists in the ROK to help him go home in his final years.
Finally, it’s more unlikely than ever that the DPRK will collapse. The economy was estimated by the Bank of Korea (an ROK bank) to have grown by 3.7% in 2024, thanks to increased trade with Russia. The harshest period for the DPRK, the Arduous March, was in the 90s, and the government did not collapse then. That was the era of mass statvation thanks to the dissolution of the USSR and horrible weather disaster that made the already difficult agricultural climate of northern Korea even worse. Nowadays food is far more stable and the economy is growing, collapse is highly unlikely.
What I think is more likely is that these trends will continue. As the US Empire’s influence wanes, the DPRK will increase trade and interaction with the world, increasing accurate information and helping grow their economy, perhaps even enabling some form of reunification with the ROK. The US Empire leaving the peninsula is the number 1 most important task for reunification, so this is increasingly likely as the US Empire becomes untenable.
Nodutdol, an anti-imperialist group of Korean expats, released a toolkit on better understanding the situation in Korea. This is more like homework, though. I also recommend Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance for learning about the DPRK’s democratic structure.
“Traitor´s Guide to North Korea” by Morten Traavik is a really good starting point for liberals to get a viewpoint from a westerner about this country :) i can highly recommend it. It´s from an artist´s point of view and demystifying the country. E.g. this dude took a Discoball around the country to take pictures because it´s fun and north koreans are… shocker… people.
Haven’t heard of that one, thanks!
It’s the guy addressing a crowd from a hill meme.
“Who wants to hear the most racist thing that’s ever been said out loud?”
crowd boos, pitchforks come out
…“About north Korea?”
crowd cheers, throws confetti
Bingo, lmao.
To people who downvote comments like this:
Why?
People reflexively downvote Cowbee because they’re scared they might accidentally learn something.
and what do you know about them, aside from all the bullshit propaganda from US?
What do you really know about them, when you can throw out any inconvenient fact about them as “bullshit propaganda from US”? Even China and Russia don’t have friendly relations with North Korea (although that’s started to change).
I notice you just completely ignored Cowbees extremely in depth response.
I stopped reading them after the first 20 or so.
I feel like you lose the right to respond when you don’t bother to read the argument
I can imagine why, it must get frustrating being so comprehensively demolished.
🔥🔥🔥
Why?
Maga nazis: you communist liberals just call everyone you disagree with nazis
Liberal nazis: you communist tankies just call everything you don’t agree with US propaganda.
Isn’t it interesting that the “We’re just saying not everyone is a nazi” crowd and the “We’re just saying not everything is US propaganda” crowd have, in practice, adopted the line that “nobody is a nazi” and " nothing is US propaganda", respectively? A neat little trick of projection. It isn’t communists who dismiss “inconvenient facts” as US propaganda, it is in fact anticommunists who uncritically accept convenient US propaganda as “facts”. We see this again and again, with every country the empire targets. If this was 2003, you would be berating us for casting doubt on the very real, totally credible story of Saddam Hussein’s WMD.
Those who learn from this pattern become communists. Those who don’t, stay liberals.
I’m not saying that there is no US propaganda against North Korea and other communist countries. Just that when you are able to dismiss everything as US propaganda you end up as far from the truth as when you blindly accept all US propaganda as true.
The reason I changed my pro-Ukraine stance was not because I debated with pro-Russia zealots on Lemmy. It was because I heard from someone who recognizes that Russia is imperfect and the war unjustified, but that Russia’s concerns were legitimate and that America clearly had a hand in causing it. I still support Ukraine’s territorial integrity BTW, just not anything like the total collapse of the Russian state.
Anyway, an acknowledgement that the North Korean state has real issues of their own making would disprove this. That information is so restricted is evidence of that.
Except communists don’t actually do that, you just reflexively accuse us of doing that when we correctly point out US propaganda. Just like how when liberal point out nazis, maga nazis accuse them of just calling everyone nazis. It’s the exact same dynamic. You can’t give up your self-image of being reasonable, so instead you just pretend that the other person is being unreasonable when you’re met with reasonable pushback
Collectively, I have never heard any Lemmy Communists acknowledge anything negative about the North Korean state at true. Not even once.
Then you’re not looking very hard, and should try asking some good faith questions with an open mind instead of mindlessly repeating lines you’ve been fed. But seeing as you didn’t know who Hindenburg was 15 minutes ago, I have very little faith in your research skills
I remember being like you and thinking it was the most “wacky, crazy, evil” country in the world based on a bunch of YouTube videos, reddit threads and dubiously sourced Cracked listicles. Man, I thought I was so smart.
When you really think about it, why do people in the west even feel the need to have an opinion (especially negative) about the DPRK? All the propaganda is so obviously an attempt to manufacture consent to massacre Koreans again as well as to distract from any problems at home.
I think you answered this actually, it makes them feel smart. The underlying emotional cause is a sense of superiority they get to feel towards the evil eastern “regime” (which is just repackaged colonial racism, in the end), which allows them to feel better about their own lot in life. It’s the white man’s burden.
While I don’t personally uphold them, they’re arguably the easiest of all the “AES” countries to make a case for.
Being anti-Israel long before it was cool even without a dog in the fight is a pretty perfect example #1