They tried their best :(
I no longer vote for neoliberals or folks who have ever received aipac money or money from the other Israeli lobbies.
Period.
Works for me.
I guess you’re staying home
I vote every election. Not sure what you’re mumbling about.
Blue no matter who got us where we are today. The democratic leadership is pathetic as fuck.
Mumbling?
A plan - if it’s not too late https://represent.us/ A video about it- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfQij4aQq1k
As stated elsewhere, I’m incredibly skeptical of any strategy that depends on trying to “convince” capitalist organizations to help the people. This is entirely contrary to how the working class has historically taken power, the organization must itself be a worker organization. Lady Izdihar made an excellent model of the Leninist theory of revolutionary organization:
Worker organizing has consistently been the most effective and widespread form of gaining working class control. We cannot simply appeal to congress, even if we could flip one against the system they represent, they would be drummed out of the party and relentlessly harassed. The capitalist system protects itself from within, and must be overthrown by the working class.
The FDR admin was pretty helpful. Union membership was declining during the Great Depression until the admin started implementing labor and union-friendly policies. Wouldn’t have happened without organization and all that either, of course. Even the NLB under Biden was marginally helpful. I mean, the politicians obviously won’t want to overthrow the system or anything like that, and a lot of the reforms could be seen as a way to save capitalism from itself.
It’s important to contextualize that the concessions of the FDR period were a response to better working conditions in the soviet union. This was a calculated move not to help workers, but protect capital.
Thank goodness for orgs like PSL.
It is not the job of the party to appeal to the people. But the job of the people to subjugate themselves to the party.
I wonder what would happen if Harris wanted to win against Trump more than she wanted to support genocide?
Antisemite!
Arabs are semetic.
inb4 someone calls you a russian bot
The kesser evil, alas choosing the lesser evil is still choosing evil
It actually isn’t. When you closing 3rd option/inaction predictably leads to the empowerment of the greatest evil, you have actually chosen the greatest evil.
A legitimate attempt to minimize harm from your given choices isn’t choosing evil at all.
This is exactly what the OP is about
I don’t feel democrats are going to do anything for me. Yet I still feel heavy pressure to vote for then
The Democrat party is so incompetent. The election losses are their fault. Stop shaming people for not voting for a platform they hate, and shame the party for a terrible platform of inaction
Youre not voting for them youre voting against a tyrant.
You have enabled genocide, the ultimate evil, and you act surprised that you’ve opened Pandora’s Box and now the Box is open.
Naw I dont think so.
You don’t think, full stop
Think whatever you want, an Israeli-trained federal death squad will be along to correct you shortly
For real. Who should I have voted for to stop this nightmare?
-PSL
-Organize with your neighborhood and city to form mutual aid networks capable of resisting coercion (like we were always going to be forced to do anyway)
-Failing that, make literally any demands of the blue fascist party whose endless imperial dipshittery you slavishly indulged at every turn. Use any fucking leverage at all instead of showing your belly preemptively.
-Failing all else, simply do not set the precedent that a candidate can run on the wholesale fascist extermination of an entire people and still receive your support. Simply do not throw 2 million human beings into the jaws of death as a matter of cowardice and taint yourself forever as a collaborator of Holocaust 2. Its actually super easy not to do that.
That ship has sailed now, and nobody is going to want you in their antifascist organization now that you’ve loudly declared your willingness to sell out the vulnerable. I think at this point you should probably just like, crawl under a rock and never come out.
So you got nothing as none of that woupd have change trump getting the office
Uh yeah im not concerned with being a part of an imaginary group. The Lemmy desire to make believe that someone saying they dont vote for the violent dictator and are wanting to vote to make their party align with their values is the same as someone supporting genocide is stupid.
This is why its such an ineffective argument. It makes you sound completely out of touch with reality. It reminds me of the various factions at the beginning of “The Life of Brian.”
Why would participating in the electoral theater change anything except increase the mass media’s view counts?
How many cities were the marines deployed to under biden
So you’re just bitching on the internet to bitch. Okay.
Trump has done more to destroy the US hegemony than Democrats ever did. Going as far to threated to invade Greenland and destoy NATO.
The lesser evil analogy only works if you don’t see victims of US imperialism as humans.
Or if its your only option. Demonizing people for not being woke enough is what led to the polarization of the radical right to begin with.
It was only ever a tiny fringe that did that
No, the radical right rose because imperialism has been declining and right-wing populism has risen in reaction to it. Voting for the DNC is not your only option, you can organize, and vote third party.
I dont feel like organizing or throwing my vote away. I dont have time for that. I’ll vote for ranked choice voting if I ever get the chance to though so the system can open up a bit.
Least privileged genocide apologist
Making up more arguments to mock? You’re a riot.
If you’re not willing to do the bare minimum to enact meaningful change, ie organizing, then your vote isn’t worth anything to begin with. Ranked Choice voting will not fall on your lap, nor will it meaningfully change anything even if it did without organizing.
Its worth just as much as yours and every other American citizens.
I dont feel like organizing
“…therefore i must support genocide! There was nothing else I could do, I didn’t feel like it!”
Get a cyanide pill ready for Nuremburg 2 buddy
Hows that genocide going by the way. Has trump bulldozed it all and started selling condos yet
Naw I think I’ll be fine. Get a grip on reality pal. It really isn’t the argument you’re pretending it is.
As a long term strategy, or individual choice, this kind of logic leads to bad outcomes regardless as the lesser evil doesn’t move a finger to improve things, which means the greater evil will win eventually regardless.
Furthermore, both parties are utterly despicable with their foreign policy, constantly participating in coups, invasions, economic warfare, bombing, and more, all while pretending to be doing it for a GOOD reason.
I believe the obvious solution is to get organized collectively and make democratic choices on short term actions (such as supporting the lesser evil) while simultaneously doing real stuff to combat against both, through learning and educating, protecting civilians, practicing mutual aid, fighting landlords and corporations with unions, etc. As it stands, intellectuals platformed by the same elites constantly argue about voting the lesser evil and little else, as threatening the system would go against the interests of those who own the media platforming them. So I’m not saying don’t vote blue in a swing state or whatever else, all I’m saying is that our political involvement can’t start and end there, because people are dying.
Yup primaries are where you can shape your party and hopefully arent choosing between a Nazi and a different flavored genocide. Do what you can with what you can.
Unless you “don’t feel like it” though, right?
Exactly right. Of course I can do that from home, so its easier.
The working class has no leverage over the DNC or GOP through voting. The working class needs to organize.
Okay. It sure felt like the republican working class leveraged their vote effectively.
The GOP isn’t a working class party.
And yet, that is a huge part of their voting base. There just aren’t enough rich people to be a functional voting block. They may have been tricked but they are voting GOP. That’s reality. Denying it loses elections.
It’s not enough to be against something. You have to be offering something as well. People need a vision to believe in.
The ‘vision to believe in’ won’t be televised.
The anti-ICE organizers have been articulating clear visions all along for those who seek them out, but the corporate media and their algorithms keep centering Dems, abetting their efforts to co-opt the movement.
Ah yes the same people who abstained from voting or picked a “third option” and allowed Trump to take office. Na those people are just as bad a Trump voters.
I love these asinine takes. I’ve yet to have a single person come up with a convincing argument about how I helped Trump, but let’s see you give it a shot.
I didn’t vote for Kamala(or Trump, before some braindead moron claims otherwise)
I live in California.
California historically has voted blue for the last ~60 years.
Predictably, Kamala won California by a large margin like any sane person expected.
So how did my vote help Trump? I showed my displeasure with the Democrat Party AND Kamala still got my states electoral votes regardless. So how, exactly, did my vote support Trump?
Or is there actually a shitload of nuance to this issue that you conveniently throw out the window? This is a braindead MAGA level cope.
Wait, so are we meaningless fringe weirdos who can be safely ignored, or are we powerful enough to sway an election? Because if it’s the former then you’re just scapegoating us for the colossal failures of the party, and if it’s the latter then that makes it even more inexcusable that the Democrats wouldn’t even not commit genocide to secure our votes.
The enemy is both strong and weak
Yeah they could have even lied and done a cease-fire until the elections were done
Becsuse we all lnow how well israel follows cease fires
Fair lol
Dems did more to put Trump in power than every third party and protest voter combined, and you’re still making excuses for them because you stand for absolutely nothing
Even if everyone that voted third party had voted for Harris, she still would have lost. Voting rates are extraordinarily low in the US Empire in general. Both parties are ultimately capitalist parties that are entirely divorced from the working classes, and the need for a working class party like PSL is critical for any advancement.
Wait why is a working class party necessary in current capitalist systems when what we want is to overthrow the current governments and instate a socialist ones?
The party is necessary to actually overthrow the government. Voting for said party helps show that the present system is rigged, and helps get the word out about their platform. See Lady Izdihar’s diagram on the Leninist theory of revolution:
In short, PSL is a revolutionary party that engages in electoralism not for belief in winning, but as a part of revolutionary strategy.
Wrong again
Lemmy.world strikes again.
Stop running evil candidates.
America needs a change in the political system. However, I have no idea of American law and whether that is even possible with the current constitution. If it is, both parties have not shown any effort to democratize the country by allowing smaller parties to participate, but protected their asses. If that’s the case, enough pressure is needed to push for change.
The idea of “democracy” is that all power comes from the people. I don’t see that in America.
Why would both parties change a system where both of them have 50% chance to rule? American democracy is ran by billionaires to benefit billionaires
… both parties have not shown any effort to democratize the country by allowing smaller parties to participate
the democrats usually use the law to keep smaller parties off of the ballot legally to prevent smaller parties from participating.
the republicans also do it, but it’s exceptionally rare and so understood that; effectively speaking; it’s the democrats who do it.
You can go back to brunch now. You’re welcome.
Oh are we already starting with the “democrats are just as bad, so dont vote in protest” memes again?
Get the fuck out of here. This bullshit is why our country is what it is right now. Millions of people who voted Dem chose to not vote, and millions more repuplican voter did vote because of the election fraud bs pushing them to ‘outvote’ the dems.
You wanna have a discussion about the problems with both sides? Save it for after the fascists are out of our streets, and back in the rat holes they belong in.
It’s a good cop bad cop routine, be less gullible
No renee good is dead because of the bad cop.
Dems voluntarily fund and support ICE
You cannot stop fascism by voting it out. Fascism is a defense mechanism for capitalism in decay, not really a choice by individuals. Trump is the symptom of the disease, not the cause, and voting will not end fascism, because the DNC is also in support of ICE, austerity, imperialism, etc. We need to actually organize to defeat fascism, in orgs like PSL.
Save it for after the fascists are out of our streets, and
back in the rat holes they belong in.back on the streets of those brown people countries, doing mass murder where I don’t have to see it or think about it👍Democrats support ICE, Democrats support Israel, Israel trains ICE.
If you don’t consider the Democratic party to be fascist, it’s because you don’t see foreigners as human.
A plan - if it’s not too late - https://represent.us/
A video about it- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfQij4aQq1k
Directionally correct 👍
And we’re just going to continue to pretend that Republicans don’t exist. Because only the Democrats get judged around here.
OP apparently doesn’t know what gaslighting means.
Both the DNC and GOP get judged. The major reason why the DNC gets more attention is because there is a significant portion of the population still under the belief that the DNC is a meaningfully better party, when both are in service of capital and both are imperialist, genocidal orgs. Therefore, the working classes need to organize in parties like PSL and directly replace the dying system of late-stage imperialism.
A plan - if it’s not too late - https://represent.us/
A video about it- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfQij4aQq1k
I’m incredibly skeptical of any strategy that depends on trying to “convince” capitalist organizations to help the people. This is entirely contrary to how the working class has historically taken power, the organization must itself be a worker organization. Lady Izdihar made an excellent model of the Leninist theory of revolutionary organization:
Worker organizing has consistently been the most effective and widespread form of gaining working class control. We cannot simply appeal to congress, even if we could flip one against the system they represent, they would be drummed out of the party and relentlessly harassed. The capitalist system protects itself from within, and must be overthrown by the working class.
Would renea good be dead if haris had won. Is that objectivly better or worse than trump
Maybe, maybe not. The DNC has been funding ICE about the same as the GOP, and Harris was running on an anti-immigrant campaign to the right of Biden. Moreover, however, the global south would still be imperialized, Palestine would still be the target of genocide, and austerity would continue to be enforced domestically. Late-stage imperialism is the driver.
Democrats? I think I’ve heard of them, they were the ones insisting we had to support a genocide and then sending riot cops to beat us down when we disagreed, right?
No that was trump. Remeber he sent the marines in to force the issue.
No that was trump
I was at UCLA during the Biden administration when the four armored pigs broke some college kid’s arm in front of me, you lying little worm. I still remember the sound.
Never been a better time for a revolution. Just vote for someone that’ll create a better voting system, proportional voting like Australia so that it’s not this horrible two party bullshit
Living in australia right now. We still have a 2 party system, we still don’t have socialism. Still 99% of people you talk to will say communism works great in theory but in practice…
I wished preferential voting would have changed things, but it doesn’t.
Never been a better time for a revolution. Just vote
I hope this is a bit
In either case, it’s such a great bit.
Well what else are Americans gonna do? It doesn’t matter how bad you treat them, they just keep rolling over. They haven’t increased the minimum wage there for over a decade and people just don’t care.
People do care, but the state doesn’t reflect the will of the people, but the will of the ruling class. In the US Empire, that’s the capitalist class. People will not get change by voting, but by organizing.
Any reason not to do both? Democrats are bad, but Republicans are obviously worse.
If people actually organize, I don’t care if they vote or not. If someone’s only political engagement is via voting, then they’re doing little to nothing.
The barrel of the gun is “worse” than the chamber. Both are part of the same weapon, pointed at the same people.
If Americans didn’t have to compete against illicit labor they would have more bargaining power. Companies would keep illicit labor even if the minimum wage was raised because it’s a class of people willing to endure immense hardship whilst never complaining.
I was told there wasn’t going to be any purity tests.
No you weren’t
I was told there werent going to be any more genocides.
If you think “not invading other countries for oil” or “not doing ethnic cleansing of immigrants” are purity tests I don’t know what to tell you.
Famously controversial purity tests such as being anti-gestapo, maybe even anti-genocide
Famous words by Ea Nassir
You’re more impure than pure if you fail this one.
