It’s important to recognize that the primary contradiction within the US Empire is settler-colonialism. The ones most oppressed by the current society are generally the ones most quickly adaptive to theory and practice, and this isn’t because oppressed people are “morally superior” but out of sheer survival. It’s also why there are so many queer communists. Without combatting settler-colonialism, anything that takes the place of the US Empire will fundamentally replicate that and would be closer to barbarism.
The US Empire is already fascist, fascism isn’t a separate mode of production but instead capitalism in decay.
Well, I wouldn’t really say it’s fascist quite yet (maybe I’m ignorant) but it’s well on the way. My point is it could get a lot worse before it gets better
One of the key characteristics of fascism is autocracy. You could argue that applies today but certainly not for decades. Regardless of if, from your perspective, neither party aligns with your goals and are far right by that standard, they are still working against each other.
Answer this because I’m curious of your perspective. Is Russia fascist, and if not why not? From what I have been exposed to (which certainly is biased admittedly) Russia is at least as far on the fascism scale as the US, they have a lot of similarities in my mind, but nobody on here will say that, but then turn around and label the US fascist.
If you think it wasn’t fascist over a century at least and point at anything “politics” then I am pointing at your finger.
That’s a circus; a show.
Look at the Banks. That’s politics. Watch it stringing the hands of workers a families. Sure their politics are in an Arch of characterization oration but they’re not even trying to force make anyone do anything.
Look at the Money. They’re puppetstrings fluxxing like Marty never fixed the Cubs mistake when it turned out that whole shenanigan was done like an inbelievably candid rigged card game, so named and trapped all attention from seeing the hot ounce balloon inflated for show. Pop the bubble. It was made to be see happening so we not get the trick dropped in 'Nam and settle for watching this cheeky shown name deflating like a doll.
Both your political parties regularly vote to continue funding ICE, DHS and the NSA. Even as recently as a few days ago. They are both pro-militarisation of the police. They both support the prison industrial complex. They both support US actions in Venezuela. And the fact you can’t make political protests in the US without the risk of being shot or imprisoned nowadays should tell you that you are already living in a fascist state. It’s a fantasy to think that, even if the Dems somehow get this administration out of office, they will fundamentally change any of those things. At least now the mask is off and you know what you are up against. The problem with libs is that they think everything would be a-ok so long as their fascist was in charge.
There are some abominable democrats, but there are some good ones too. Your statements are simply not true for a solid portion of democrats. It is a fantasy to think things would be much better if the Dems get this admin out though, I agree. And to get anything done there is pandering required with the other leading party, which I think stops the Democrats from becoming as leftist as many would want to. So yeah, progress is hard. It seems to me that the political perspective of Americans across the board needs to shift left before much change can be had, so that the Democrats are true leftists and the Republicans are less far right
There are some abominable democrats, but there are some good ones too.
I totally agree that’s true. Most Dems on lemmy are far to the left of their own party on most issues. But unfortunately, the party leadership is way to the right on most issues, and they are the ones in positions of power and influence.
It seems to me that the political perspective of Americans across the board needs to shift left before much change can be had, so that the Democrats are true leftists and the Republicans are less far right
This isn’t how it actually works, though. The Dems and Reps aren’t very representative of the Statesian public, but instead its capitalists. The US is a capitalist state, it’s a dictatorship of capital, and both allowed parties represent capital only. This is shown by the low voting rates in the US Empire, the DNC and GOP cannot move left, only working class orgs can represent the working class.
No they aren’t you are right. But Dem and rep interests have changed significantly over their existence, so it’s not like their platform changing is totally impossible. Also, there are plenty more than one allowed party, they don’t normally get much traction though. Is it not natural in a system that allows multiple parties, for the voter base to generally fall into a few large groups?
The ones the DNC and GOP serve haven’t changed, capital’s interests have morphed depending on varying domesting and international situations. As for allowing multiple parties, on paper that’s true, but not in practice. See the ways they fuck with PSL ballot access, such as in Georgia in 2024. Finally, the idea that voters fall into 2 large groups is a consequence of capitalism being divided into 2 dominant classes, proletarians and capitalists, but only having the parties represent the capitalists. It’s political theater, not representation.
“native Americans are more likely to like communism” isn’t exactly a solid foundation for establishing “an indigenous led, decolonial socialist state [that] takes the place of the former US Empire,”
It is highly unlikely that if the us government collapses everyone’s going to be like “whelp let’s let the communist indigenous people lead may as well, even though they don’t have the numbers, arms, food or production to run anything”
Sure in an idealistic sense it would be cool to go full Ferngully/dances with wolves/Avatar/noble savage cliche but if we’re going to dream that big I’d like an infinite pizza shooting unicorn.
You’re right, that isn’t a solid foundation. What is, is working class organization along correct lines of struggle, part of which is decolonization, as the US Empire’s primary contradiction is settler-colonialism.
Further, you’re right to say that if the US Empire collapsed now that it would result in barbarism. That’s the point of organizing, though, so that when the US Empire is in crisis, we can overthrow it and implement a new system.
None of this is based on ideals, but learning from historical struggles for socialism.
Idk mate, you’re the one who brought up the idea of an indigenous socialist revolution and now you’re saying that ideal isn’t a solid foundation. I thought the point was to unite the working class as a whole, not put a generic category of race made by colonialism on a pedestal. “Indigenous” isn’t a single group of people who all think vaguely the same about communism, so I’m not sure why you thought it would be a good idea to say that’s the ideal situation.
It’s multi-faceted. Ignoring the settler-colonial nature of the US Empire ignores its primary contradiction, the forces at play in the given society, and why the US proletariat is against revolution right now. Any working class organization needs correct analysis of settler-colonialism to have success elsewhere. It’s similar to trying to have a TERF worker organization, by excluding marginalized comrades and taking incorrect lines, we damage the movement and lose some of our fiercest fighters, all while winding ourselves into reactionary contradictions and tailism.
I feel that, but when you say the ideal is an indigenous led movement, and case that on the assumption that indigenous people will be all on board, it doesn’t come off as multi faceted, especially when you say that’s the ideal outcome. Your ideal outcome is based off of an assumption based on race, while lumping many races and cultures together. That’s easy different from “we need to bring the various indigenous people to the table and try to rebuild in a way outside of colonialism”.
It’s not at all contradictory to say that in the context of a settler-colony like the US Empire, indigenous peoples will need to play a leading role among the broader working classes. It isn’t about racial supremacy, but about acknowledging the importance of decolonization.
I think we’re having a communication issue, where I’m trying to explain how you’re coming off, and you’re trying to explain how you’re right. Being correct doesn’t mean that you presented that correctness in a way that honors your truth, and can have the opposite effect of what you want. I don’t even disagree with what your overall point is, but the way you’ve been wording things until this last comment hasn’t been doing your overall point justice.
It’s important to recognize that the primary contradiction within the US Empire is settler-colonialism. The ones most oppressed by the current society are generally the ones most quickly adaptive to theory and practice, and this isn’t because oppressed people are “morally superior” but out of sheer survival. It’s also why there are so many queer communists. Without combatting settler-colonialism, anything that takes the place of the US Empire will fundamentally replicate that and would be closer to barbarism.
The US Empire is already fascist, fascism isn’t a separate mode of production but instead capitalism in decay.
Well, I wouldn’t really say it’s fascist quite yet (maybe I’m ignorant) but it’s well on the way. My point is it could get a lot worse before it gets better
It’s been fascist for decades. Fascism doesn’t become official only when it happens to white people almost as much as the rest of us.
One of the key characteristics of fascism is autocracy. You could argue that applies today but certainly not for decades. Regardless of if, from your perspective, neither party aligns with your goals and are far right by that standard, they are still working against each other.
Answer this because I’m curious of your perspective. Is Russia fascist, and if not why not? From what I have been exposed to (which certainly is biased admittedly) Russia is at least as far on the fascism scale as the US, they have a lot of similarities in my mind, but nobody on here will say that, but then turn around and label the US fascist.
If you think it wasn’t fascist over a century at least and point at anything “politics” then I am pointing at your finger.
That’s a circus; a show.
Look at the Banks. That’s politics. Watch it stringing the hands of workers a families. Sure their politics are in an Arch of characterization oration but they’re not even trying to force make anyone do anything.
Look at the Money. They’re puppetstrings fluxxing like Marty never fixed the Cubs mistake when it turned out that whole shenanigan was done like an inbelievably candid rigged card game, so named and trapped all attention from seeing the hot ounce balloon inflated for show. Pop the bubble. It was made to be see happening so we not get the trick dropped in 'Nam and settle for watching this cheeky shown name deflating like a doll.
Both your political parties regularly vote to continue funding ICE, DHS and the NSA. Even as recently as a few days ago. They are both pro-militarisation of the police. They both support the prison industrial complex. They both support US actions in Venezuela. And the fact you can’t make political protests in the US without the risk of being shot or imprisoned nowadays should tell you that you are already living in a fascist state. It’s a fantasy to think that, even if the Dems somehow get this administration out of office, they will fundamentally change any of those things. At least now the mask is off and you know what you are up against. The problem with libs is that they think everything would be a-ok so long as their fascist was in charge.
There are some abominable democrats, but there are some good ones too. Your statements are simply not true for a solid portion of democrats. It is a fantasy to think things would be much better if the Dems get this admin out though, I agree. And to get anything done there is pandering required with the other leading party, which I think stops the Democrats from becoming as leftist as many would want to. So yeah, progress is hard. It seems to me that the political perspective of Americans across the board needs to shift left before much change can be had, so that the Democrats are true leftists and the Republicans are less far right
I totally agree that’s true. Most Dems on lemmy are far to the left of their own party on most issues. But unfortunately, the party leadership is way to the right on most issues, and they are the ones in positions of power and influence.
This isn’t how it actually works, though. The Dems and Reps aren’t very representative of the Statesian public, but instead its capitalists. The US is a capitalist state, it’s a dictatorship of capital, and both allowed parties represent capital only. This is shown by the low voting rates in the US Empire, the DNC and GOP cannot move left, only working class orgs can represent the working class.
No they aren’t you are right. But Dem and rep interests have changed significantly over their existence, so it’s not like their platform changing is totally impossible. Also, there are plenty more than one allowed party, they don’t normally get much traction though. Is it not natural in a system that allows multiple parties, for the voter base to generally fall into a few large groups?
The ones the DNC and GOP serve haven’t changed, capital’s interests have morphed depending on varying domesting and international situations. As for allowing multiple parties, on paper that’s true, but not in practice. See the ways they fuck with PSL ballot access, such as in Georgia in 2024. Finally, the idea that voters fall into 2 large groups is a consequence of capitalism being divided into 2 dominant classes, proletarians and capitalists, but only having the parties represent the capitalists. It’s political theater, not representation.
Fascism and liberalism don’t have hard lines distinguishing them, they each contain elements of the other.
Removed by mod
“native Americans are more likely to like communism” isn’t exactly a solid foundation for establishing “an indigenous led, decolonial socialist state [that] takes the place of the former US Empire,”
It is highly unlikely that if the us government collapses everyone’s going to be like “whelp let’s let the communist indigenous people lead may as well, even though they don’t have the numbers, arms, food or production to run anything”
Sure in an idealistic sense it would be cool to go full Ferngully/dances with wolves/Avatar/noble savage cliche but if we’re going to dream that big I’d like an infinite pizza shooting unicorn.
You’re right, that isn’t a solid foundation. What is, is working class organization along correct lines of struggle, part of which is decolonization, as the US Empire’s primary contradiction is settler-colonialism.
Further, you’re right to say that if the US Empire collapsed now that it would result in barbarism. That’s the point of organizing, though, so that when the US Empire is in crisis, we can overthrow it and implement a new system.
None of this is based on ideals, but learning from historical struggles for socialism.
Idk mate, you’re the one who brought up the idea of an indigenous socialist revolution and now you’re saying that ideal isn’t a solid foundation. I thought the point was to unite the working class as a whole, not put a generic category of race made by colonialism on a pedestal. “Indigenous” isn’t a single group of people who all think vaguely the same about communism, so I’m not sure why you thought it would be a good idea to say that’s the ideal situation.
It’s multi-faceted. Ignoring the settler-colonial nature of the US Empire ignores its primary contradiction, the forces at play in the given society, and why the US proletariat is against revolution right now. Any working class organization needs correct analysis of settler-colonialism to have success elsewhere. It’s similar to trying to have a TERF worker organization, by excluding marginalized comrades and taking incorrect lines, we damage the movement and lose some of our fiercest fighters, all while winding ourselves into reactionary contradictions and tailism.
I feel that, but when you say the ideal is an indigenous led movement, and case that on the assumption that indigenous people will be all on board, it doesn’t come off as multi faceted, especially when you say that’s the ideal outcome. Your ideal outcome is based off of an assumption based on race, while lumping many races and cultures together. That’s easy different from “we need to bring the various indigenous people to the table and try to rebuild in a way outside of colonialism”.
It’s not at all contradictory to say that in the context of a settler-colony like the US Empire, indigenous peoples will need to play a leading role among the broader working classes. It isn’t about racial supremacy, but about acknowledging the importance of decolonization.
I think we’re having a communication issue, where I’m trying to explain how you’re coming off, and you’re trying to explain how you’re right. Being correct doesn’t mean that you presented that correctness in a way that honors your truth, and can have the opposite effect of what you want. I don’t even disagree with what your overall point is, but the way you’ve been wording things until this last comment hasn’t been doing your overall point justice.
If I’ve been misunderstood, then it’s important to clarify further.