Unironically this is the Marxist argument for veganism. Humanity’s distinction is that it is aware of its own place within nature, nature turned self-aware, but this doesn’t set us apart from nature. We are nature, just like trees, birds, insects, etc. We do have a qualitatively different level of intelligence, but it isn’t an insurmountable difference in the grand scheme of evolutionary biology.
Humanity’s distinction is that it is aware of its own place within nature
That’s pure hubris. It’s neither evident that we DO understand our place, or that other creatures understand less well than we do. This is the sort of thing we tell ourselves for our own psychological needs, not because we have evidence that leads us to believe these things. We could quite easily “understand” a facile pretense presented to us by more fundamental layers of our own nature, crafted to bend our choices and perceptions towards those that benefit our DNA but harm individuals. Or, we could simply be wrong. There is no way to test our math.
Matter is what’s primary, not our own ideas, and as such we collectively gain more of an understanding of how the world works by interacting with it. Other animals also learn, but have quantitative differences so large in communication capacity and the ability to learn that there is a qualitative difference between humanity as a social species and the rest of animals, though not an insurmountable gap.
Well then it’s not really inherent. You’re talking about culture; we don’t just innately divine the nature of existence, we argue with each other and come to some kind of consensus. But the thing is, culture is arbitrary and almost necessarily wrong. None of us agree with each other about our place in nature. This quality you are citing does not exist in reality.
Think about how a human struggles to understand death and mortality. Ten years after a loss, our mind still seeks ways to reconnect with a person we knew, still tries to find ways to talk to that person. Our minds are kept from fundamentally accepting and understanding death. But most mammals do not behave like this. We tell ourselves it’s because we understand death and they do not, but if you examine the behaviour like an alien anthropologist, it looks like many non-human animals DO understand the nature of death, and we do not. We do not see reality, we see what our evolution wants us to see.
But with one exception, or, counter-point, perhaps… from “do not” to “can”, if only, perhaps, fleetingly. Cant take it all back with you. Did well enough to remember that I had.
I’ll depict with a (paste of a) little story:
(referring to this experience of omniscience in a trip from abstaining from magic mushrooms for 2 years, fasting for 24 hours, then mid day, on that empty stomach, consuming uncounted tens of grams of dried, freshly fine-powdered, very strong northern psilocybe semilanceata, hot, in just lemon juice, and chugging that pint of thick mushroom super-lemony brew down as fast as i could. it started coming on FAST and STRONG. ran the 3 strides to the bathroom sink with need to purge, which didnt last long nor purge much of it… clinging to the sink as i slumped down, with the trip immensity roaring at the doors bursting in at all the seams, i tried to steady myself, i meditatively focused on a drop of water, empathising with it likewise clinging to the underside of the sink. i empathised my way instantly to know where every molecule, and every atom, of the water in there, had ever been, and it was a short jump from there to realise i could do that with everything, … and this was only in the beginning seconds of the hours long trip, the ability to see behind things, to know from every perspective, everybody, all time, all times, all dimensions all places… i cant speak to it really, only to say i remember i did experience it. cant take it all back with you. first exchange with other people after i came out of the toilet, friends had come around, one asked “how was it?”, and with it all still being fresh, the immensity of having experienced omniscience, sought to offer what i thought was the most beautiful thing of it all… i said, with all glowing reverie “i know death”. the look of horror on the poor dear’s face though. ho ho ho. but yeah, get that… we mere mortals, many, all around, can experience omniscience. and many are. say hi.)
We can’t understand the world purely through arguing, but through actually engaging with the world and learning about it directly. You’re putting ideas before matter, rather than the inverse.
Unironically this is the Marxist argument for veganism. Humanity’s distinction is that it is aware of its own place within nature, nature turned self-aware, but this doesn’t set us apart from nature. We are nature, just like trees, birds, insects, etc. We do have a qualitatively different level of intelligence, but it isn’t an insurmountable difference in the grand scheme of evolutionary biology.
That’s pure hubris. It’s neither evident that we DO understand our place, or that other creatures understand less well than we do. This is the sort of thing we tell ourselves for our own psychological needs, not because we have evidence that leads us to believe these things. We could quite easily “understand” a facile pretense presented to us by more fundamental layers of our own nature, crafted to bend our choices and perceptions towards those that benefit our DNA but harm individuals. Or, we could simply be wrong. There is no way to test our math.
Matter is what’s primary, not our own ideas, and as such we collectively gain more of an understanding of how the world works by interacting with it. Other animals also learn, but have quantitative differences so large in communication capacity and the ability to learn that there is a qualitative difference between humanity as a social species and the rest of animals, though not an insurmountable gap.
Well then it’s not really inherent. You’re talking about culture; we don’t just innately divine the nature of existence, we argue with each other and come to some kind of consensus. But the thing is, culture is arbitrary and almost necessarily wrong. None of us agree with each other about our place in nature. This quality you are citing does not exist in reality.
Think about how a human struggles to understand death and mortality. Ten years after a loss, our mind still seeks ways to reconnect with a person we knew, still tries to find ways to talk to that person. Our minds are kept from fundamentally accepting and understanding death. But most mammals do not behave like this. We tell ourselves it’s because we understand death and they do not, but if you examine the behaviour like an alien anthropologist, it looks like many non-human animals DO understand the nature of death, and we do not. We do not see reality, we see what our evolution wants us to see.
I agree with that,
But with one exception, or, counter-point, perhaps… from “do not” to “can”, if only, perhaps, fleetingly. Cant take it all back with you. Did well enough to remember that I had.
I’ll depict with a (paste of a) little story:
We can’t understand the world purely through arguing, but through actually engaging with the world and learning about it directly. You’re putting ideas before matter, rather than the inverse.