Both 5e and the 2024 rules only crit / crit miss on attacks. But Baldur’s Gate 3 introduced them on checks, which muddied the waters.
BG3 also did drinking potions as bonus actions, which 5e did not do but many DM’s (including those in several well-known real play shows) did as a house rule, then they incorporated it into the 2024 rules.
So common that Critical Success or Failure is literally mentioned in the 5e Dungeon Master’s Guide (2014), though more as an enhancer rather than automatic success/failure.
The example’s wording does imply that the roll result needs to be successful for the enhancer to apply. However, it literally states beforehand that it’s up to the DM how it manifests, and increase of impact is just a suggestion.
Personally, I prefer what the example in the DMG implies than automatic success. It depends on the campaign, but giving a wizard with 8 strength a 1/20 chance to lift a Sequoia log by themself is a bit much.
Why is it a mess? It’s just the nature of TTRPGs. Like the books make it very explicit: the rules are only rules insofar as the GM and players agree; and the GM is always the final arbiter.
“Homebrewing” is just playing the game as intended.
Well, I like the way my DM does it. I would say I’m surprised, but the logic behind the rules is way too far beyond my understanding and I regularly am thrown off by the exceptions.
Heh I would play it as the player is now PART of the hoard and is now the DRAGONS personal pet. The player was too persuasive lol.
And now the shenanigans is trying to get away from said dragon. And the rest of the group will now be dealing with a dragon that wants its shiny back in its hoard for the entire rest of the campaign.
Nat 20s can make for some GREAT monkey paw situations. Its really fun.
DM: “Nat-20? The dragon is amused by your insane audacity and merely punts you out of his chamber instead of turning you into a smoking cinder on the spot. Roll for fall damage.”
Flat out wrong. Per page 400 and 401 of the Player Core, “All types of checks, from skill checks to attack rolls to saving throws, follow these basic steps.“ … “You critically succeed when the check’s result meets or exceeds the DC by 10 or more.” Furthermore, individual skill actions specifically list a crit effect, such as with Recall Knowledge which grants you additional information or a follow up question.
Cool. Couldn’t find it anywhere on the net that wasn’t being attributed to pf2e. Doesn’t change the fact that the guy you’re replying to said 5e (I did recall playing with this rule in PF, but again couldn’t find the rule)
Is a nat 20 not treated as a critical success? At least that’s how my 5e DM handles those.
DnD 5e does not have critical successes or failures on ability checks. Only attack rolls have critical successes and failures.
Both 5e and the 2024 rules only crit / crit miss on attacks. But Baldur’s Gate 3 introduced them on checks, which muddied the waters.
BG3 also did drinking potions as bonus actions, which 5e did not do but many DM’s (including those in several well-known real play shows) did as a house rule, then they incorporated it into the 2024 rules.
What a mess.
Baldur’s gate didn’t really introduce them. It was a house rule so common it may as well been an optional rule.
So common that Critical Success or Failure is literally mentioned in the 5e Dungeon Master’s Guide (2014), though more as an enhancer rather than automatic success/failure.
The example’s wording does imply that the roll result needs to be successful for the enhancer to apply. However, it literally states beforehand that it’s up to the DM how it manifests, and increase of impact is just a suggestion.
Personally, I prefer what the example in the DMG implies than automatic success. It depends on the campaign, but giving a wizard with 8 strength a 1/20 chance to lift a Sequoia log by themself is a bit much.
Why is it a mess? It’s just the nature of TTRPGs. Like the books make it very explicit: the rules are only rules insofar as the GM and players agree; and the GM is always the final arbiter.
“Homebrewing” is just playing the game as intended.
Well, I like the way my DM does it. I would say I’m surprised, but the logic behind the rules is way too far beyond my understanding and I regularly am thrown off by the exceptions.
Some DMs don’t like critical success or failure on skill checks.
Those DMs are less fun.
Nat 20 adds one to the degree of success, which almost always means a crit unless you are dealing with something way above your level.
How some crazies want ability checks to work:
Player: I gesture vaguely towards the ancient dragon indicating I would like it to give me all of its gold and become my personal pet.
DM: Roll a persuasion check
Player: Let’s see… Minus 4 because I’m still only level 2… With a Nat-20 that’s totals 16
DM: Nat-20? By golly I guess that means you succeed - the ancient dragon and its entire hoard of treasure are yours now.
Hey, if that’s what’s fun for your group, fuckit, why not?
Heh I would play it as the player is now PART of the hoard and is now the DRAGONS personal pet. The player was too persuasive lol.
And now the shenanigans is trying to get away from said dragon. And the rest of the group will now be dealing with a dragon that wants its shiny back in its hoard for the entire rest of the campaign.
Nat 20s can make for some GREAT monkey paw situations. Its really fun.
How critical success ability checks should work:
DM: “Nat-20? The dragon is amused by your insane audacity and merely punts you out of his chamber instead of turning you into a smoking cinder on the spot. Roll for fall damage.”
That’s Pathfinder rules, this is 5e
formally there is no crit success in 5e
I don’t see any indication that it is any specific system being referenced, so I chose the better one.
Umm, the comment you’re replying to specifically says “my 5e DM”.
And again, that’s homebrew for pathfinder, not pathfinder. There’s only rules for critical hits in pathfinder.
Flat out wrong. Per page 400 and 401 of the Player Core, “All types of checks, from skill checks to attack rolls to saving throws, follow these basic steps.“ … “You critically succeed when the check’s result meets or exceeds the DC by 10 or more.” Furthermore, individual skill actions specifically list a crit effect, such as with Recall Knowledge which grants you additional information or a follow up question.
Photographic proof from the rulebook attached.
Cool. Couldn’t find it anywhere on the net that wasn’t being attributed to pf2e. Doesn’t change the fact that the guy you’re replying to said 5e (I did recall playing with this rule in PF, but again couldn’t find the rule)
insight doesn’t exist in pf2e
Well you’re wrong. Nat 20 or nat 19 actually means you get to take another main action on the same turn, which can potentially also crit.
That’s also homebrew inspired by pathfinder. There’s no rule in 5e about crits for anything outside combat.