Research has linked the ability to visualize to a bewildering variety of human traits—how we experience trauma, hold grudges, and, above all, remember our lives.
When I close my eyelids and relax, I tend to see random noise in darkness. I can manipulate it to an extent in terms of shape, so I can see how that can be worked on with some patience to shape what I see more intentionally. So, I think you’re right that with some dedicated effort I could gain more control over what I’m seeing with my eyes closed.
In general, I find when I try to visualize things, it feels like I perceive the shapes I’m thinking about, but not in my visual field. It’s more like I have a concept of the object I’m thinking of, and it can be detailed enough to explore, but it’s very distinct from actually seeing it. It feels more like there’s a ghostly shape floating in my mind.
Right, it’s not the same field as the eyes for me.
It feels more internal, that’s all I can say, because it has no obvious relationship to the head. It could be vaguely closer to the back of the head, but not literally.
So it’s just as you say, basically. If you make a habit of focusing your mind there, you will make it stand out more, make it brighter, stabler, etc.
In general, I find when I try to visualize things, it feels like I perceive the shapes I’m thinking about, but not in my visual field.
I think this is IT. The real deal.
It’s like we can have more than one field, basically. The eyes work with one visual field of the few that we have. I think we have at least two.
Typically you might habitually overlook the visualization field, so the sensations there can appear arbitrarily subtle and abstract.
I was taught when young that fantasizing is what unserious people do, so for a period of time I learned to ignore and tune out some aspects of my inner life. Of course I wanted to be a serious person. I think different things happen with different individuals. I am just sharing this as one example of what might have happened. Inner life can be complicated. But I still believe almost everything happens for a reason, even if the reason is obscure.
Yeah that’s a really good way to describe it. Basically, it’s like a visual field, but not from the eyes, and my brain just kind of suppresses it. But practising focusing on it could help with making myself more attuned to paying direct attention to it. I really should try spend a bit of time on that.
It’s really fascinating to hear how other people’s mental processes work, it’s not something we tend to talk about. And it’s kind of easy to assume that other people’s minds work roughly like your own, but clearly there are some pretty big differences.
I am in perfect agreement! (that almost never happens)
For me I was taught that subjectivity (what’s inside) distorts and dillutes objectivity (what’s outside). Objectivity is reality. Subjectivity is fantasy, delusion, fake, a distraction, a waste of time, a matter for unserious people, and so on.
I somewhat resentfully accepted all that, until later I rejected that entire way of thinking.
I think I even had a few black and white dreams when little, and I quietly freaked out about it and started paying more attention to my dreams, which appeared in color, and I was like “I thank my lucky stars.” Boy I hated the idea of not having color.
As far as I remember there are like two halves or aspects of mine fighting. One is the pro-objectivity side and another is the pro-subjectivity side. I have been trying to tell myself it’s a false dichotomy, can’t all of me please get along now? It’s all valuable and valid, there is no need for me to rip myself in half. I was somewhat successful.
It didn’t help my pro-odjectivity side that I have low-key envied the visual arts people. Now there is more internal peace for me, and subjectivity is valid, valued, and needed, together with what we can call objectivity. I don’t have useless parts.
The way I like to look at it is that we build models of the world in our heads. Our subjectivity is basically our own distinct understanding of the world that we develop through our unique experience. It’s not the objective reality itself, but it’s how we represent it and make sense of it.
In order for me to look left, I must have a spatial concept internally before I fill in my space construct with some samples of information. That spatial concept is impossible to impart or teach. So what I call “the world” is a product of my own discipline, a melding of my imagination and some seemingly external content, more so than a reflection of something genuinely and absolutely external.
Even so, surprises happen, so there is definitely unconscious content. So internal/external framework is not necessarily 100% wrong, but more like 50% wrong, or too naive, oversimplified.
So I see subjectivity as the root context, within which objectivity is a special case partial representation and highlighting of a portion of that context.
Incidentally, I can highly recommend Consciousness Explained
by Dennett, it’s a really good dive into origin of internal experience, what purpose consciousness serves, and how it might work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_Explained
When I close my eyelids and relax, I tend to see random noise in darkness. I can manipulate it to an extent in terms of shape, so I can see how that can be worked on with some patience to shape what I see more intentionally. So, I think you’re right that with some dedicated effort I could gain more control over what I’m seeing with my eyes closed.
In general, I find when I try to visualize things, it feels like I perceive the shapes I’m thinking about, but not in my visual field. It’s more like I have a concept of the object I’m thinking of, and it can be detailed enough to explore, but it’s very distinct from actually seeing it. It feels more like there’s a ghostly shape floating in my mind.
Right, it’s not the same field as the eyes for me.
It feels more internal, that’s all I can say, because it has no obvious relationship to the head. It could be vaguely closer to the back of the head, but not literally.
So it’s just as you say, basically. If you make a habit of focusing your mind there, you will make it stand out more, make it brighter, stabler, etc.
I think this is IT. The real deal.
It’s like we can have more than one field, basically. The eyes work with one visual field of the few that we have. I think we have at least two.
Typically you might habitually overlook the visualization field, so the sensations there can appear arbitrarily subtle and abstract.
I was taught when young that fantasizing is what unserious people do, so for a period of time I learned to ignore and tune out some aspects of my inner life. Of course I wanted to be a serious person. I think different things happen with different individuals. I am just sharing this as one example of what might have happened. Inner life can be complicated. But I still believe almost everything happens for a reason, even if the reason is obscure.
Yeah that’s a really good way to describe it. Basically, it’s like a visual field, but not from the eyes, and my brain just kind of suppresses it. But practising focusing on it could help with making myself more attuned to paying direct attention to it. I really should try spend a bit of time on that.
It’s really fascinating to hear how other people’s mental processes work, it’s not something we tend to talk about. And it’s kind of easy to assume that other people’s minds work roughly like your own, but clearly there are some pretty big differences.
I am in perfect agreement! (that almost never happens)
For me I was taught that subjectivity (what’s inside) distorts and dillutes objectivity (what’s outside). Objectivity is reality. Subjectivity is fantasy, delusion, fake, a distraction, a waste of time, a matter for unserious people, and so on.
I somewhat resentfully accepted all that, until later I rejected that entire way of thinking.
I think I even had a few black and white dreams when little, and I quietly freaked out about it and started paying more attention to my dreams, which appeared in color, and I was like “I thank my lucky stars.” Boy I hated the idea of not having color.
As far as I remember there are like two halves or aspects of mine fighting. One is the pro-objectivity side and another is the pro-subjectivity side. I have been trying to tell myself it’s a false dichotomy, can’t all of me please get along now? It’s all valuable and valid, there is no need for me to rip myself in half. I was somewhat successful.
It didn’t help my pro-odjectivity side that I have low-key envied the visual arts people. Now there is more internal peace for me, and subjectivity is valid, valued, and needed, together with what we can call objectivity. I don’t have useless parts.
The way I like to look at it is that we build models of the world in our heads. Our subjectivity is basically our own distinct understanding of the world that we develop through our unique experience. It’s not the objective reality itself, but it’s how we represent it and make sense of it.
In order for me to look left, I must have a spatial concept internally before I fill in my space construct with some samples of information. That spatial concept is impossible to impart or teach. So what I call “the world” is a product of my own discipline, a melding of my imagination and some seemingly external content, more so than a reflection of something genuinely and absolutely external.
Even so, surprises happen, so there is definitely unconscious content. So internal/external framework is not necessarily 100% wrong, but more like 50% wrong, or too naive, oversimplified.
So I see subjectivity as the root context, within which objectivity is a special case partial representation and highlighting of a portion of that context.
Incidentally, I can highly recommend Consciousness Explained by Dennett, it’s a really good dive into origin of internal experience, what purpose consciousness serves, and how it might work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_Explained