I’ve heard a funny story somewhere that god created the humans sothat they are worshipped. Because if nobody believes in them, they might as well not exist.
It’s a cool axiom though. I mean if there’s nothing conscious to know the universe exists, like, so what? A universe needs life to matter to that life. Intrinsic mattering makes no sense. Things have to matter to other things that have the capacity to want or need. But without consciousness, those things might as well be like calculations in a computer.
Not having consciousness might be the best thing that could happen to a universe. Just everything existing, without desire or suffering.
With a universe that peaceful, there might as well not be us.
actually that’s precisely what buddhism is all about. there is no “i” in it all, the universe is a river of colors, flowing, transforming, but it is because we cling to the world that we create the illusion of an “i” ourselves.
There’s a cool video about this by exurb1a, i think it’s this one (but could also be another video, this dude made a lot of great videos.)
Us. Conscious creatures humans or otherwise. We are the genesis of “point”.
By analogy, what’s the point of a sun, or a planet, being a thing? It just is, right? A mechanism of nature.
Maybe we are do, but it’s undeniable that we experience reality. Experience is the only thing they can have a point, by definition. This is simply axiomatic.
There is no knowing a universe without knowers, so whether something just is, absent is, is a nonsense question. Sense to whom, after all?
What makes ‘us’ so special that the worth of a whole universe is determined by our existence, inspite of the brevity of human history? Written history has only been around for 5,000. The oldest homo sapiens has only been around for 300,000 years. Was the universe insignificant for the rest of its 13,799,700,000 years?
It doesn’t. But “needing” itself is an undefined term without consciousness - definition itself is a product of conscious experience.
The point is that there is no fact of a universe existing without something that can know facts. It’s necessarily tautological, after all we cannot know not existing.
Were we not, the universe could not be as we know it. Whether or not it exists at all without us cannot matter, because mattering itself cannot be defined without a definer, nor can existence itself be verified without a verifier.
That which “just is” could be absolutely anything at any time.
In other words, Maybe the big bang happened some 13.8 billion years ago and over all this time events transpired until the first consciousnesses came online. Suddenly the universe knows being. Then one day you come online, somewhere around the age of 5 or 6.
Or… That is just what it looks like to you and in reality someone preprogrammed the simulation and switched it on and you came into existence at the moment of your oldest memory. All that history is true only in the sense that it’s what the simulation shows you. But 13.8 billion years never really happened.
That’s basically how it is, and it doesn’t need to be an external simulation. Those 13.8 billion years had nothing in them to experience, to remember, or to document concepts like duration, and years are a relational measurement we invented.
The ‘why’ is us.
Without consciousness in the universe, there might as well not be a universe.
Typically something a consciousness would say.
The cosmos can’t ponder itself so excuse us for being self centered lol
I’ve heard a funny story somewhere that god created the humans sothat they are worshipped. Because if nobody believes in them, they might as well not exist.
We are the cosmos pondering itself.
Carl Sagan said it more or this way and he was right.
It’s a cool axiom though. I mean if there’s nothing conscious to know the universe exists, like, so what? A universe needs life to matter to that life. Intrinsic mattering makes no sense. Things have to matter to other things that have the capacity to want or need. But without consciousness, those things might as well be like calculations in a computer.
Nope, only matters if we hear it.
Indeed. But it’s an axiom, not a tautology.
Not having consciousness might be the best thing that could happen to a universe. Just everything existing, without desire or suffering.
With a universe that peaceful, there might as well not be us.
actually that’s precisely what buddhism is all about. there is no “i” in it all, the universe is a river of colors, flowing, transforming, but it is because we cling to the world that we create the illusion of an “i” ourselves.
There’s a cool video about this by exurb1a, i think it’s this one (but could also be another video, this dude made a lot of great videos.)
What would be the point of a universe if there was nothing experiencing it?
Who or what is it “best” for?
What is the “point” of this universe?
Us. Conscious creatures humans or otherwise. We are the genesis of “point”.
By analogy, what’s the point of a sun, or a planet, being a thing? It just is, right? A mechanism of nature.
Maybe we are do, but it’s undeniable that we experience reality. Experience is the only thing they can have a point, by definition. This is simply axiomatic.
There is no knowing a universe without knowers, so whether something just is, absent is, is a nonsense question. Sense to whom, after all?
I’m sticking that as text over an image of Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
Haha, that we, but same difference.
Why does the universe need to be known?
What makes ‘us’ so special that the worth of a whole universe is determined by our existence, inspite of the brevity of human history? Written history has only been around for 5,000. The oldest homo sapiens has only been around for 300,000 years. Was the universe insignificant for the rest of its 13,799,700,000 years?
It doesn’t. But “needing” itself is an undefined term without consciousness - definition itself is a product of conscious experience.
The point is that there is no fact of a universe existing without something that can know facts. It’s necessarily tautological, after all we cannot know not existing.
Were we not, the universe could not be as we know it. Whether or not it exists at all without us cannot matter, because mattering itself cannot be defined without a definer, nor can existence itself be verified without a verifier.
That which “just is” could be absolutely anything at any time.
In other words, Maybe the big bang happened some 13.8 billion years ago and over all this time events transpired until the first consciousnesses came online. Suddenly the universe knows being. Then one day you come online, somewhere around the age of 5 or 6.
Or… That is just what it looks like to you and in reality someone preprogrammed the simulation and switched it on and you came into existence at the moment of your oldest memory. All that history is true only in the sense that it’s what the simulation shows you. But 13.8 billion years never really happened.
That’s basically how it is, and it doesn’t need to be an external simulation. Those 13.8 billion years had nothing in them to experience, to remember, or to document concepts like duration, and years are a relational measurement we invented.