@OurToothbrush my history books Aldo mention the starvation devastation Stalin visited upon the Ukrainian population. It is a matter of historical record, witnessed and verified. What about it do you doubt?
Not according to noted anti-communist historians like Conquest, Wheafcroft and Davies, even fucking Applebaum. Have you read something outside a highschool textbook?
Having three degrees does not make you more knowledgeable on subjects you dont have knowledge in.
You obviously do not have the tools to identify the foremost experts. You have been terrible at identifying credible resources, youre last round has been: book review of a book by an author who has made comments that it isnt a genocide, an encyclopedia, a news article about a vote by a European parliament, and a list of English translated letters that don’t show evidence it was a genocide. None are anywhere close to as credible as the well respected mainstream historians who studied this, thought it was a genocide, and then said “no, actually it wasn’t” after the undemocratic dissolution of the USSR when more internal documents became available for them.
As for the vote you reference, that event was actually mentioned by this well respected western Jewish historian and activist in his article on holocaust trivialization:
@OurToothbrush Your points are disingenuous. At the time some of the original works that are quoted were written, the term genocide had not come into common use. That makes the point that some of the writers did not use the term rather meaningless. Had you read the articles and researched the background data cited you might have learned something. It is clear to me now that learning that something you have questioned has a strong factual basis is not exactly what you’re looking for. You’re looking for someone to reaffirm your misconceptions. I am not that guy, and that does not upset me although it seems to upset you. Since you’re not interested in anything from me I will abandon this thread at this point, but I suggest you continue and widen your readings I challenge your preconceptions to get closer to the truth. I wish you the best of luck.
At the time some of the original works that are quoted were written, the term genocide had not come into common use. That makes the point that some of the writers did not use the term rather meaningless.
What are you even talking about?
Had you read the articles and researched the background data cited you might have learned something.
I’ve literally read books on the subject written by people who hold a very negative opinion of the USSR. You have a smorgasbord of hastily assembled articles that you very evidently didn’t read, or at least read critically, before citing.
You’re looking for someone to reaffirm your misconceptions. I am not that guy, and that does not upset me although it seems to upset you.
You are projecting.
Since you’re not interested in anything from me I will abandon this thread at this point,
I literally am interested in something from you, which is that you read and understand the cited article from a well respected Jewish holocaust historian and activist on why what youre doing is holocaust trivialization.
but I suggest you continue and widen your readings I challenge your preconceptions to get closer to the truth. I wish you the best of luck.
I literally engage with the mainstream anti-ussr western academic consensus on the subject, you want me to credulously engage with revived nazi propaganda that was used as justification for exterminating Jews by Ukrainian collaborators.
@OurToothbrush Here then https://www.npr.org/2022/11/28/1139402378/ukraine-holodomor-famine-stalin-parallels-putin-russia-war
Hoe about you actually go look at academics instead of citing corporate media
@OurToothbrush my history books Aldo mention the starvation devastation Stalin visited upon the Ukrainian population. It is a matter of historical record, witnessed and verified. What about it do you doubt?
Not according to noted anti-communist historians like Conquest, Wheafcroft and Davies, even fucking Applebaum. Have you read something outside a highschool textbook?
@OurToothbrush https://www.britannica.com/place/Ukraine/The-famine-of-1932-33-Holodomor
@OurToothbrush Yes. History is not my primary subject, but I have three degrees and trust the foremost experts on the subject. https://holodomor.ca/resources/documents-and-sources/documents/
Having three degrees does not make you more knowledgeable on subjects you dont have knowledge in.
You obviously do not have the tools to identify the foremost experts. You have been terrible at identifying credible resources, youre last round has been: book review of a book by an author who has made comments that it isnt a genocide, an encyclopedia, a news article about a vote by a European parliament, and a list of English translated letters that don’t show evidence it was a genocide. None are anywhere close to as credible as the well respected mainstream historians who studied this, thought it was a genocide, and then said “no, actually it wasn’t” after the undemocratic dissolution of the USSR when more internal documents became available for them.
As for the vote you reference, that event was actually mentioned by this well respected western Jewish historian and activist in his article on holocaust trivialization:
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
You should read it so you understand the political implications of the claim you are making and how it connects to denying the holocaust.
@OurToothbrush Your points are disingenuous. At the time some of the original works that are quoted were written, the term genocide had not come into common use. That makes the point that some of the writers did not use the term rather meaningless. Had you read the articles and researched the background data cited you might have learned something. It is clear to me now that learning that something you have questioned has a strong factual basis is not exactly what you’re looking for. You’re looking for someone to reaffirm your misconceptions. I am not that guy, and that does not upset me although it seems to upset you. Since you’re not interested in anything from me I will abandon this thread at this point, but I suggest you continue and widen your readings I challenge your preconceptions to get closer to the truth. I wish you the best of luck.
What are you even talking about?
I’ve literally read books on the subject written by people who hold a very negative opinion of the USSR. You have a smorgasbord of hastily assembled articles that you very evidently didn’t read, or at least read critically, before citing.
You are projecting.
I literally am interested in something from you, which is that you read and understand the cited article from a well respected Jewish holocaust historian and activist on why what youre doing is holocaust trivialization.
I literally engage with the mainstream anti-ussr western academic consensus on the subject, you want me to credulously engage with revived nazi propaganda that was used as justification for exterminating Jews by Ukrainian collaborators.
@OurToothbrush https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2023/10/13/council-of-europe-recognizes-soviet-era-starvation-of-millions-in-ukraine-as-genocide_6168547_143.html#
@OurToothbrush https://euromaidanpress.com/2017/10/04/why-holodomor-is-genocide-under-un-convention/