Agreed, auto success on a skill check nerfs challenges.
If the DC is so high that the PC doesn’t succeed with a 20, it seems too random to give it to them.
Then again, it depends on the situation: a nat 20 trying to convince the penny pinching tavern owner to give you a discount seems like fun even if the DC should be infinite; but when dealing with something story related, I’d stick a little closer to the rules.
I recall a Zee Bashew video that I can’t seem to find that referenced a chart of how willing someone was to help when requested. The idea being the scale isn’t from “I will actively hinder you” to “I will sell my estate to aid you” but rather from less then helpful to more helpful.
For example, if you asked some haggard clerk about a quest the scale might be:
Critical failure, the clerk directs you to the job board for details on any job.
Failure, the clerk may point out there specific job on the board and direct you to it.
Success, the clerk tells you that the person who posted the job is staying somewhere in town.
Critical success, the clerk may share a rumor they heard in addition to telling you where the poster may be staying.
Regarding a discount from a penny-pinching inn keeper, perhaps it could go:
Critical failure, payment for the entire stay is required up front. Extending your stay is not permitted.
Failure, They are not willing to lower their prices
Success, they will offer a lower price if you bundle extra services like meals, drinks, and baths.
Critical success, they will offer you the bundle rate without bundling.
For stuff that isn’t story related, and if the group is in the right frame of mind, I’d ham up 1 and 20 on social roles. Nobody is selling their estate, but they might decide they take a shine to the PC or something else that’s fun. Similarly, a nat-1 could get the NPC offended, so they refuse a request grumpily or only help grudgingly.
Otherwise, I think what you’re saying is how I’d play it.
You’re right, but I don’t know most of my PCs stats. If the DC on a lock is 21, I’d expect a rogue might make it, but another PC who has never picked a lock wouldn’t.
Worse! At just level 7, a rogue is likely to have +11 and Advantage to pick a lock, which combined with Reliable Talent means they can’t fail a DC 21, and have a 1/2 chance of beating a DC 26.
So if you want there to be uncertainty and challenge, you have to make the DC more like 25-28. Making it all the more likely that the lock should be impossible to the rest of the party.
If I wanted to formally add ability check crits I would make them add/subtract something from your result. Not automatically pass/fail, because the consequences of that are bonkers.
Agreed, auto success on a skill check nerfs challenges.
If the DC is so high that the PC doesn’t succeed with a 20, it seems too random to give it to them.
Then again, it depends on the situation: a nat 20 trying to convince the penny pinching tavern owner to give you a discount seems like fun even if the DC should be infinite; but when dealing with something story related, I’d stick a little closer to the rules.
I recall a Zee Bashew video that I can’t seem to find that referenced a chart of how willing someone was to help when requested. The idea being the scale isn’t from “I will actively hinder you” to “I will sell my estate to aid you” but rather from less then helpful to more helpful.
For example, if you asked some haggard clerk about a quest the scale might be:
Regarding a discount from a penny-pinching inn keeper, perhaps it could go:
For stuff that isn’t story related, and if the group is in the right frame of mind, I’d ham up 1 and 20 on social roles. Nobody is selling their estate, but they might decide they take a shine to the PC or something else that’s fun. Similarly, a nat-1 could get the NPC offended, so they refuse a request grumpily or only help grudgingly.
Otherwise, I think what you’re saying is how I’d play it.
But at the same time, if the DC is so high that no roll could succeed, then they shouldn’t be rolling for it in the first place
This. You only need dice if the odds are dicey.
You’re right, but I don’t know most of my PCs stats. If the DC on a lock is 21, I’d expect a rogue might make it, but another PC who has never picked a lock wouldn’t.
Worse! At just level 7, a rogue is likely to have +11 and Advantage to pick a lock, which combined with Reliable Talent means they can’t fail a DC 21, and have a 1/2 chance of beating a DC 26.
So if you want there to be uncertainty and challenge, you have to make the DC more like 25-28. Making it all the more likely that the lock should be impossible to the rest of the party.
If I wanted to formally add ability check crits I would make them add/subtract something from your result. Not automatically pass/fail, because the consequences of that are bonkers.
Agreed