• Match!!@pawb.social
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      16 hours ago

      fuck off, we should protect Jewish friends in our lives, even as we protest for palestine, because we have to crush racism whenever we see it.

      • Cocopanda@futurology.today
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        6 hours ago

        Who’s saying they shouldn’t be protected? I’m just not going to pay attention to anything like it’s none of my business. Per sipping my tea. I’m just not going to get emotionally invested in any of this stuff.

    • HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml
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      1 day ago

      Keep your antisemitic bullshit out of this. And I say that as a very anti-Israel pro-Palestinian person. You’re making it harder for us to bring Israel’s atrocities to attention and be taken seriously. Fuck. Off.

    • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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      2 days ago

      Oh you apparently assume that jewish = supports israel. You’re just like everyone else who conflates antisemitism and antizionism.

        • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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          2 days ago

          Yes I am well aware that Israel conflates them. I am saying Cocopanda is just like the Israelis in this regard.

          Can you explain how Zionism is antisemitic? That’s quite a hot take.

          • Bloomcole@lemm.ee
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            15 hours ago

            It creates hate for jews by hiding behind them and speaking in their name.
            It is not a hot take.
            You will probably find the following equally true statement even hotter: zionism is fascism.
            Have some fun: https://zionism.wtf/

            • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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              10 hours ago

              I find “zionism is fascism” pretty sensible. Hot in the public eye, perhaps, but not such a hot take for me personally.

              But your same argument goes:

              • White supremacy is racist against white people (because it speaks in their name)
              • Nazism are racist against so-called Aryans (because it speaks in their name)
              • Male chauvinism is sexist against men (after all, it doesn’t represent all men)
              • Pro-choice is anti-feminist; after all, it misrepresents what pro-life women find moral.

              I actually do agree insofar as there is a second-order effect that causes harm for some jews – the Star of David is less popular than ever, now! What a shame Israel appropriated it for its flag! – but I just can’t bring myself to agree with the basic premise here. If your movement elevates one type of person over another, you can’t be said to be against that type of person, even if you’re scoring own-goals. In that case, you’re just failing despite your intentions.

          • شاهد على إبادة@lemm.ee
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            2 days ago

            Zionism is based upon the myth that everyone hates Jews and that Jews can’t live among other people. I am awfully summarizing what I heard an antizionist rabbi say.

            • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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              2 days ago

              Regardless of whether it is true or false that Jews are a target of hatred, it would not be antisemitic to think that they are. In other words, believing antisemitism exists is not antisemitic. (Personally, I believe antisemitism is absolutely real, but being anti-Israel is not antisemitism. For instance, the KKK excluded jews.)

              I also think it’s not antisemitic to think that Jews would benefit from a homeland of their own, despite the fact that antisemites helped create Israel. That’s not the same as believing Jews cannot live among other people.

              • شاهد على إبادة@lemm.ee
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                2 days ago

                Whatever it may be, it should have never been made our problem and should have never been right in the middle of the Arab World. But there is a Christian Evangelical and European Colonial aspect to Zionism.

                • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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                  1 day ago

                  Well yeah, but now you’re saying something very different from what you were saying before. And I agree, Israel was a mistake. Unfortunately it’s a problem that’s hard to fix now.

                  • شاهد على إبادة@lemm.ee
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                    1 day ago

                    No it isn’t. The Frankish invaders were expelled after 200 years. The French in Algeria were expelled after 100 years. Similar problems have already been solved twice before.

                • Gorgritch_Umie_Killa@aussie.zone
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                  1 day ago

                  it should have never been made our problem

                  The cleaves between the faiths have exsisted there for thousands of years. Israel is a new power, but the participatory Abrahamic religions are not. Nor are most of the peoples there. Its best to remember European Jewish weren’t the only peoples to build up Israel.

                  I think you’ve gone too far with your comment.

                  • شاهد على إبادة@lemm.ee
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                    1 day ago

                    Moroccan, Indian, Iranian, Syrian, Yemeni, Ethiopian and Iraqi Jews are still settlers and not indigenous to Palestine. They are invaders, you give them a part of your country and leave us out of it.

      • Cocopanda@futurology.today
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        2 days ago

        Will it matter to someone who lost most of their family? If not all of them? My family went through a genocide and I know how that anger can fester and grow into unhealthy behaviors. I’ve forgiven the monsters that murdered my family. But I doubt many people can really achieve this. As I took radical steps to see through the hate.

        • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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          2 days ago

          Well… yeah I mean I do actually think people can see past that. I know of holocaust survivors who later became friends with not just germans but even people who were active nazis. If you’re saying the cycle of violence can never end then we don’t really need that kind of negativity around here IMO.

          • Cocopanda@futurology.today
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            2 days ago

            I’m just saying no matter what. Without pure peace. There will always be radicalized individuals that come out of these genocides. Sure a few of us can forgive. But that’s not the norm.

            Both sides have to give up fighting. Put down the guns and treat one another like brothers and sisters. Until that happens. It will be an endless conflict.

            • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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              1 day ago

              I suspect that non-radicality is actually the norm, because who can really be bothered. But all it takes is a vocal minority of radicalized people to keep the fire burning, and to flip non-radicals.

      • Cocopanda@futurology.today
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        2 days ago

        Israel will radicalize an entirely new generation from this genocide. If you don’t know what happens to people who lose entire families. Then I would suggest you read up on it.

        Until Israel stops their genocide. No one will be safe.

        I have experienced Genocide in my own family. Without the proper mental health care. It can become a very toxic and controlling part of your psyche.

        But I have said this for 20+ years. Israel will never find peace if they are stealing land and murdering people in their sleep. Just look at the settlers. And what they are doing. This is what radicalizes these people.

        Like I told friends who went to fight for the IDF. You’re really not helping by continuing the genocide.

        • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
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          1 day ago

          I know what Israel is doing, and I know there will be consequences. Fuck you, for saying you’ll kick back and “sip tea” while random Jews reap “karma”. You’re doing Israel’s work for them. I spit on Israel, and I spit on you.

            • Taleya@aussie.zone
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              1 day ago

              No you’re not, your openly cheering on the murder of a demographic for the actions of a nation state. Even the unrelated ones. Even the ones fighting against it. You don’t care, you just see all Jews on the planet as an acceptable target.

              You’re not sorry and you’re not ‘healed’ as you like to claim. You are not ok. Ok people don’t do this.

              • Cocopanda@futurology.today
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                1 day ago

                Bro. I’ve worked in anti-terror. I’m a dude that has spent time studying the IRA. I have seen first hand what happens to everyone within a demographic perceived as an enemy. Jewish might not all support it. But terror cells don’t give a fuck. Retribution at all costs. And after decades of trying to warn about this happening like Munich and other catastrophic mass casualty events. They are not getting my sympathy. It’s disgusting that they have murdered Emergency responders.

                I live in reality man. I know what this Israeli government is trying to do. Because it’s the same thing the US did to legalize its war on terror in Afghanistan and Iraq. They let their citizens die to progress their hate. Just like they LET the Oct 20th attack happen. Israel wanted Hezbollah to get uppity.

                  • Cocopanda@futurology.today
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                    1 day ago

                    And I’m at this point emotionally. Because they have outright lied about why they murdered emergency responders. Israel has effectively made it ok to kill anyone as long as you own the media narrative.