The article mentions how basic programs are missing. They acknowledge the existence of FOSS alternatives, e.g. GIMP instead of Photoshop Elements, but complain about it being too difficult or that some alternatives are simply not to be found via Mint’s “Software Manager”.
Which is not news and probably one of the reasons why desktop Linux-based distros have still not become mainstream. There’s just a lack of all that “user-friendlyness” less tech-oriented people need.
These things can be changed, although there is an economic barrier. FOSS projects are great and we see how many of them took off. However, if the main portion of users are not on Linux, but on Windoofs, then it doesn’t make much sense to invest time and money into developing and maintaining software for Linux while having commercial interests.
The sad reality is that Microsoft has gained that market dominance. You won’t get end-user oriented software companies on board with Linux as long as the user-share is so comparably low. This is a self-reinforcing cycle.
Windoofs meets UX needs and there is a lot of software people need -> most people use Windoofs -> companies develop and distribute for Windoofs -> people keep using Windoofs, etc…
To break out of that, people need convincing alternatives. Not just for Linux alone, but especially for the software running on it.
Which is hard to achieve, given how a plethora of Linux projects have to survive on donations alone and too few companies take the leap.
There is a silver lining though. With the Steam Deck and Proton, Valve really got a lot more people on board with Linux. I can only hope, that this trend continues.
But at the moment I fear that this will be short lived, especially with Microsofts “handheld Xbox” on the horizon.
So let’s see, how this unfolds. The EOL of Windows 10 is really a strong incentive to switch to Linux. For my part, I will go for the full switch, since I’ve used Windoofs mainly for gaming anyway and am using Linux systems daily for my job. But then again, I am an engineering scientist and I can’t picture, e.g., my parents being satisfied with a Linux distro.
Getting radical, but software is another example of why capitalism sucks and how a socialist system could improve things.
In the domain of software design and distribution, when these things are run by companies that need to compete for market share and profit, then it just creates so much waste with needing everything to. be subscription based and filled with ads etc.
If we didn’t have this ultra competitive market system, then people who are passionate about software could be paid to self organise around various projects and design things for long term use value and not enshittification.
This is the reason I have my family on the Apple ecosystem as much as I hate it and wish I could throw open the doors of Linux and just live in that open source utopia. The number of devices needed and the purposes of those devices grows every year. Apple is mostly idiot proof, it’s the same experience across all devices, and I just do not have to worry as much about “can you help me with…”. I can’t imagine even attempting this with Linux. It would be a nearly full time IT job explaining things and putting out fires.
It sure as hell is not. Not even close. That’s just the marketing that Apple has spent countless millions on propagating. You have no idea how many people over the years have asked me to help them with “simple” things on their Apple devices.
One example is my mother for whom I bought an iPad when she was moving across the country away from me. I thought it would simplify things for her since I couldn’t do visits to fix things when she needed help. After a couple weeks she finally called me to tell she doesn’t like it and can’t figure out anything on it. Swapped it out for an Android tablet and I haven’t helped her once since then (like 5 years ago).
Edit: I haven’t needed to help her, it’s not like I just ignored her from then on /Edit
I’ve also setup multiple people with Linux (including my parents) and I never get tech help calls about it. At most it’s my dad saying he can’t find his bookmarks or he forgot his email password.
So no, the idea that Apple is easier is just a lie everyone was tricked into believing. Most people have used Apple devices for a long time or know someone who has, so the support network is generally there for the small everyday things.
I didn’t have to show my aging parents a single thing on their Linux systems. I just setup their shortcuts for Chrome/Firefox and their documents to the same spot on the desktop as their old Windows install and they just use it.
People use the command line because it’s so much faster and more convenient. But there’s often a gui tool. I use Yast from time to time. It has its uses too. It’s slower though (if you know the syntax).
Is this a joke? The main way most Linux users install software is still via the command line.
I reject the premise that the command line is not user friendly.
With either a GUI or a command line, the first step is going to be “Search the internet for the instructions.”
The second step for the command line option is “ctrl-c, ctrl-v”. The task is now complete.
The GUI option is only superior if it allows the user to skip the “Search for it” step. If it does not, now you are manually searching some arcane hierarchy for the specific location the developer decided to place that option.
Most things I do in command line I am not aware of or would want to do in a GUI on windows tbh. Recursive search for any files that contain a specific string? How do you do that on windows without.
Most people just want Facebook and pornhub, Linux has everything you need.
Most things are point & click & no one uses CLI in windows, it’s objectively inferior to linux
Also “start & stop a service” ? Does that sound like something an average user deals with in windows ?
Linux does need a control panel, I can admit that but let’s not pretend that Linux’s CLI is tough to learn.
& the CLI is the most effective way of doing things in a pinch, when push comes to shove.
If someone like Pewdiepie (he’s no tech-savvy guy) can use linux, thrn linux has gotten user-friendly enough, although linux can do better & more needs to be done
Ease of installation😅
now you’re straight up lying, linux is by far easier to install with a liveUSB
as for hardware, that’s upto the manufacturers to open up their systems
Thanks for revealing your hatred for linux (I cannot wait for you to call me a linux-cultist, eventhough I admitted that linux can do better)
The bad cli thing is a 2000s view not a 2020s view. PowerShell is better than bash and windows terminal does everything I need both for local PowerShell stuff and remote bash stuff.
There’s a reason why POSIX is still enduring to this day. Microsoft’s penchant for writing short novels for a basic command is not what I would call “better”. And that’s ignoring the fact that PowerShell doesn’t have a fraction of *nix shell capabilities and utilities.
Well, ya. Its terminal interface, I’d expect it to have “basic” capabilities.
also can run standard dotnet libraries.
That’s not exactly a selling point.
What can bash do that PowerShell can’t?
Write succinct and easy to read commands. Interop with all the powerful tools in the Linux ecosystem (which is the point of a shell like bash).
posix lost except insofar as it lives on in the two mainstream highly proprietary OSs.
That’s just simply not true. Three majority of core utils you find on most Linux systems are POSIX compliant or mostly compliant. IIRC all the GNU tools are POSIX.
Who cares about Pewdiepie, the point is how much more “user-friendly” do you want, the excuses never end.
If a stupid guy like pootiepie can handle linuxmint, then people are out of excuses
Plus it’s actually the apps that we’ll need to focus on (& games)
The article mentions how basic programs are missing. They acknowledge the existence of FOSS alternatives, e.g. GIMP instead of Photoshop Elements, but complain about it being too difficult or that some alternatives are simply not to be found via Mint’s “Software Manager”.
Which is not news and probably one of the reasons why desktop Linux-based distros have still not become mainstream. There’s just a lack of all that “user-friendlyness” less tech-oriented people need.
These things can be changed, although there is an economic barrier. FOSS projects are great and we see how many of them took off. However, if the main portion of users are not on Linux, but on Windoofs, then it doesn’t make much sense to invest time and money into developing and maintaining software for Linux while having commercial interests.
The sad reality is that Microsoft has gained that market dominance. You won’t get end-user oriented software companies on board with Linux as long as the user-share is so comparably low. This is a self-reinforcing cycle.
Windoofs meets UX needs and there is a lot of software people need -> most people use Windoofs -> companies develop and distribute for Windoofs -> people keep using Windoofs, etc…
To break out of that, people need convincing alternatives. Not just for Linux alone, but especially for the software running on it.
Which is hard to achieve, given how a plethora of Linux projects have to survive on donations alone and too few companies take the leap.
There is a silver lining though. With the Steam Deck and Proton, Valve really got a lot more people on board with Linux. I can only hope, that this trend continues.
But at the moment I fear that this will be short lived, especially with Microsofts “handheld Xbox” on the horizon.
So let’s see, how this unfolds. The EOL of Windows 10 is really a strong incentive to switch to Linux. For my part, I will go for the full switch, since I’ve used Windoofs mainly for gaming anyway and am using Linux systems daily for my job. But then again, I am an engineering scientist and I can’t picture, e.g., my parents being satisfied with a Linux distro.
Getting radical, but software is another example of why capitalism sucks and how a socialist system could improve things.
In the domain of software design and distribution, when these things are run by companies that need to compete for market share and profit, then it just creates so much waste with needing everything to. be subscription based and filled with ads etc.
If we didn’t have this ultra competitive market system, then people who are passionate about software could be paid to self organise around various projects and design things for long term use value and not enshittification.
Because people with the free time to do so have already come together and organized themselves around a single Linux distribution for this purpose?
Lack of user-friendlylinesss ? What ? How much more user-friendly can we get ?
Most things are point & click
Most isn’t good enough, it has to be better than Windows. People will pay money to deal with the devil they know rather than learning something new.
People use chromebooks
This is the reason I have my family on the Apple ecosystem as much as I hate it and wish I could throw open the doors of Linux and just live in that open source utopia. The number of devices needed and the purposes of those devices grows every year. Apple is mostly idiot proof, it’s the same experience across all devices, and I just do not have to worry as much about “can you help me with…”. I can’t imagine even attempting this with Linux. It would be a nearly full time IT job explaining things and putting out fires.
It sure as hell is not. Not even close. That’s just the marketing that Apple has spent countless millions on propagating. You have no idea how many people over the years have asked me to help them with “simple” things on their Apple devices.
One example is my mother for whom I bought an iPad when she was moving across the country away from me. I thought it would simplify things for her since I couldn’t do visits to fix things when she needed help. After a couple weeks she finally called me to tell she doesn’t like it and can’t figure out anything on it. Swapped it out for an Android tablet and I haven’t helped her once since then (like 5 years ago).
Edit: I haven’t needed to help her, it’s not like I just ignored her from then on /Edit
I’ve also setup multiple people with Linux (including my parents) and I never get tech help calls about it. At most it’s my dad saying he can’t find his bookmarks or he forgot his email password.
So no, the idea that Apple is easier is just a lie everyone was tricked into believing. Most people have used Apple devices for a long time or know someone who has, so the support network is generally there for the small everyday things.
I didn’t have to show my aging parents a single thing on their Linux systems. I just setup their shortcuts for Chrome/Firefox and their documents to the same spot on the desktop as their old Windows install and they just use it.
I respectfully disagree. We have had different lived experiences but that does not make it a lie or that I was tricked.
Most things until anything goes wrong, and then you’re out on your ass on the grub recovery screen
Is this a joke? The main way most Linux users install software is still via the command line.
On Windows the command line is an exceptional thing you sometimes have to use for troubleshooting. On Linux it’s the default way everything is done.
For example how do you stop a service on Linux? The top answer just assumes command line.
If I search for how to do it with a GUI I get a 5 year old post explaining that all the GUI attempts are dead.
Now if I search for Windows, I get these instructions (from the AI but they sound like I remember it):
And the top SO question is someone asking specifically how to do it with the command line because the GUI way is so easy and obvious.
That’s just one random example. Not even getting to hardware support, ease of installation, etc.
People use the command line because it’s so much faster and more convenient. But there’s often a gui tool. I use Yast from time to time. It has its uses too. It’s slower though (if you know the syntax).
I reject the premise that the command line is not user friendly.
With either a GUI or a command line, the first step is going to be “Search the internet for the instructions.”
The second step for the command line option is “ctrl-c, ctrl-v”. The task is now complete.
The GUI option is only superior if it allows the user to skip the “Search for it” step. If it does not, now you are manually searching some arcane hierarchy for the specific location the developer decided to place that option.
Most things I do in command line I am not aware of or would want to do in a GUI on windows tbh. Recursive search for any files that contain a specific string? How do you do that on windows without.
Most people just want Facebook and pornhub, Linux has everything you need.
Most things are point & click & no one uses CLI in windows, it’s objectively inferior to linux
Also “start & stop a service” ? Does that sound like something an average user deals with in windows ?
Linux does need a control panel, I can admit that but let’s not pretend that Linux’s CLI is tough to learn. & the CLI is the most effective way of doing things in a pinch, when push comes to shove.
If someone like Pewdiepie (he’s no tech-savvy guy) can use linux, thrn linux has gotten user-friendly enough, although linux can do better & more needs to be done
Thanks for revealing your hatred for linux (I cannot wait for you to call me a linux-cultist, eventhough I admitted that linux can do better)
The bad cli thing is a 2000s view not a 2020s view. PowerShell is better than bash and windows terminal does everything I need both for local PowerShell stuff and remote bash stuff.
It factually and objectively is not
There’s a reason why POSIX is still enduring to this day. Microsoft’s penchant for writing short novels for a basic command is not what I would call “better”. And that’s ignoring the fact that PowerShell doesn’t have a fraction of *nix shell capabilities and utilities.
Why is it factually and objectively not?
It has standard bash capabilities and also can run standard dotnet libraries. What can bash do that PowerShell can’t?
I’m skipping by the POSIX part because well…posix lost except insofar as it lives on in the two mainstream highly proprietary OSs.
Well, ya. Its terminal interface, I’d expect it to have “basic” capabilities.
That’s not exactly a selling point.
Write succinct and easy to read commands. Interop with all the powerful tools in the Linux ecosystem (which is the point of a shell like bash).
That’s just simply not true. Three majority of core utils you find on most Linux systems are POSIX compliant or mostly compliant. IIRC all the GNU tools are POSIX.
So your factual and objective point is, let me make sure I captured this right, is:
Cool
Who cares about Pewdiepie, the point is how much more “user-friendly” do you want, the excuses never end. If a stupid guy like pootiepie can handle linuxmint, then people are out of excuses
Plus it’s actually the apps that we’ll need to focus on (& games)
??
Clearly you do. You brought him up. And brought him up again.