Now we’re up to $900 per US household for this Ukraine stuff. Let’s throw a few more bucks at it to buy flags. Great use of taxpayer dollars. Sure, Jan.
Most of which are armament that the US government already had in its arsenal. You’ve spent the money and now those missiles are actually in use instead of being hold in storage. I’m actually more interested in that 900 USD amount, where did you read or hear that exact number?
Because it has a point, albeit not perfect. Wouldn’t you rather the US not have a ridiculously big military budget and can divert spending to, say, education and healthcare?
Sure, it’s great that the US arsenal can obliterate any country in the world should the political powers will it, but this is not the best version of the world, honestly. As you said, it’s your money. Are you okay with it?
I’d rather the companies in my country stop selling those armaments to the US, actually. Maybe this is a good time to review your military budget and ask your government why you have it in the first place?
This conflict has the potential to cause real change in Russia. We’re talking about potentially getting rid of Putin’s regime and it’s being done without sending any of our troops to die. The help Ukraine is getting isn’t charity, look at the bigger picture.
If Putin is overthrown the people most likely to overthrow him are hardliners who think he’s being a cuck by not immediately nuking Kiev and Washington.
So it’s a good thing that there’s basically zero indication of major internal political stability in Russia. Even the Wagner “coup” only asked for Shoigu and Gerasimov to be removed, not Putin.
Why are they sending hundreds of thousands of working class people of both Ukraine, Russia and third countries to kill each other then, if it’s really about the governments’ wrongdoings?
Why not support revolutionaries within Russia, helping the Russians to dispose of their own government? Why does NATO have to be involved as an actor in the first place? Why do workers have to murder each other on front lines? The governments’ and militaries’ support should be constrained strictly to humanitarian support and help, not weapons.
Both governments and their national capital are the enemy. It is a war between two economies over geopolitical control over Ukraine, fought by and written in blood of people who don’t profit from either side of the war. No Ukrainian soldier or Russian soldier wins at the end of the day. Whichever side wins, it is going to end in a bloodbath and further oppression. Sure, a Russian win would be worse in the long run, but the Ukrainian government and NATO countries ain’t no saints either, and is certainly not the side I would like to die for.
Russia would certainly impose its oppressive social stances on the territory including its homophobia, sexism, racism, patriarchal order, lack of freedom of press and so on. This would probably not be as bad under a NATO-aligned European government (although the West has been known to bring fascists to power if necessary), which uses its slight edge in progressivism as a useful propaganda shield.
Both would however use it as a geopolitical pressure point for further aggression, stationing nuclear weapons, economically colonize the war-torn ruins by “helping rebuild”, and subduing the local population and labor rights. Zelensky disbanded unions and the right to strike, abolished gay marriage for the duration of the war to prevent gay refugees from taking their husbands with them, banned socialist movements and is draconic against draft dodgers and peace activists (even those without Russian ties). The Ukrainian army stations troops in civilian places to hide them, endangering their own people, incorporate and welcome neo-nazis into their military as part of some kind of popular front, and use banned weapons. On the other side, Russia does all of these too and commits war crimes left and right, so it is not like they are any more welcome in my eyes.
Either outcome would (in the long term) be worse for the people of Ukraine, Russia, the rest of Europe and probably the world. The war would not stop after Ukraine.
As long as our economy is steered by the whims of wealthy people seeking to maximize their profits and not by any democratic process, we will have these issues over and over again as at some point the only direction the economy could grow is into other countries.
It’s no coincidence that China and Russia are the “enemies” of the West when they are the two biggest economies that mainly act in competition to the Western economies. For instance, Amazon would literally kill to get the entire Chinese market, let alone all other American multinationals. And with the power that money and capital has, a war is possible to incite based on that desire to expand to “enemy countries”. Same with the Chinese and Russian economies. Tencent and Gazprom would love to control their respective Western markets.
You do realize that America already overthrew Russia’s government once, and that is how Putin came to be in the first place, right? You expect cycle #2 to go better?
Lmao. I’m sure they’ll overthrow the government, just like the Americans did to their own government after invading Vietnam and Iraq. Have you seen what the Russian government is doing to mild protestors? Black bagged, sent off to who knows where, doing who knows what. It’s Kent State by like 500x. This isn’t 1980s USSR. The people there support Putin. And those who don’t and protest are still denounced by the west for not doing enough, as if westerners have ever succeeded in holding their governments accountable.
The most realistic outcome is that Putin resigns in disgrace and 20 years later they make shoot and cry movies about Russian soldiers in Ukraine. And then they’ll rehabilitate Putin as a strong leader anyway.
We’re talking about potentially getting rid of Putin’s regime and it’s being done without sending any of our troops to die.
The people surrounding Putin who are most likely to replace him are hardliners who think Kiev should be glassed. Part of the motivation behind the Wagner mutiny is Prigo thinking Shoigu isn’t going hard enough in Ukraine. Contrary to liberal bots who only listen to what CNN tells them, it’s good for everyone involved that the Wagner mutiny was completely deflated. There wouldn’t be much of a Ukraine left if Prigo was in charge, and Prigo is not the only one.
This Ukraine stuff is a war where 100.000 war crimes were reported, tens of thousands of civilians were killed raped and tortured, where hundreds of thousands of people lost their house.
I wouldn’t say it’s $900 per household because
It’s from the defense federal budget, that you would’ve spent anyways
The aid packages, expressed in dollars, are the sum of the value of the equipment sent to Ukraine, in vast majority which US already had
The defence budget is there to be able to stand against the strongest adversaries: China and Russia. USA basically annihilated one of their enemies’ army without a single drop of blood.
The government of Ukraine reports 103.325 war crimes, 9444 killed civilians, 16940 injured civilians.
(war.ukraine.ua). You may legitimately considered these numbers inflated by the Ukrainian government, for this reason I can redirect you to the Wikipedia page https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine containing plentiful of references and sources.
Why do you think the Ukrainians are Nazi? You’re clearly failing to understand that having a Nazi problem (like any country) does not imply the government is Nazi. You have seen images of men with their tattooed arms right? How does it mean that the government is Nazi? It’s Kremlin’s propaganda to discredit Ukrainians. Go see the polls and see how many far-right parties got (2%).
I linked a Wikipedia page, so there’s no need to “believe” as the war crimes are documented.
Now look at who’s committing genocide, deportations and tortures.
You haven’t heard of hyperbole, clearly. But it’s not far from the truth. Russia commits war crimes every day. It’s all their military is good for. They can’t fight a real force, so they blow up and murder civilians instead. To claim otherwise is misinformed at best, actively dishonest at worst.
Now we’re up to $900 per US household for this Ukraine stuff. Let’s throw a few more bucks at it to buy flags. Great use of taxpayer dollars. Sure, Jan.
Most of which are armament that the US government already had in its arsenal. You’ve spent the money and now those missiles are actually in use instead of being hold in storage. I’m actually more interested in that 900 USD amount, where did you read or hear that exact number?
Who said I preferred it killing people half way across the world instead of rotting in storage
Maybe it’s high time to overhaul that thinking and stop having a ridiculous military budget.
Holy shit, it’s so high because it gets used constantly.
You’re literally here supporting the use of it
Liberal thinkers are epic
I don’t know how this brain genius talking point got so popular.
So things don’t cost money when you already spent money on them? …You don’t think those stocks are going to be replenished having been depleted?
Wonder why they never apply that logic to housing…
Then it suddenly costs money!
Because it has a point, albeit not perfect. Wouldn’t you rather the US not have a ridiculously big military budget and can divert spending to, say, education and healthcare?
Sure, it’s great that the US arsenal can obliterate any country in the world should the political powers will it, but this is not the best version of the world, honestly. As you said, it’s your money. Are you okay with it?
Yes? But this seems like a non sequitur.
You see, we will reduce our military budget by using more weapons. This makes sense in the liberal mind
And now we have to replenish those arsenals… they absolutely will be replenished.
Like, if you give all the food in your cupboard to someone, no one would consider that “free”. You have to buy more food!
This argument seems so foolish I can hardly believe anyone actually thinks this way.
I’d rather the companies in my country stop selling those armaments to the US, actually. Maybe this is a good time to review your military budget and ask your government why you have it in the first place?
The same imperial government that lied to its people and provoked a land war in Europe?
The same one you’re legitimizing in fueling that conflict by implying it’s free?
Yeah let me call up my boy Biden and tell him no more bombs while you point and laugh at me from behind
This conflict has the potential to cause real change in Russia. We’re talking about potentially getting rid of Putin’s regime and it’s being done without sending any of our troops to die. The help Ukraine is getting isn’t charity, look at the bigger picture.
If foreigners are people then why can’t they vote in our elections?
Checkmate tankie.
Never mind all the US vets that died over there lmfao
This person just outing themself as craving the sending of Ukrainians into the fucking meatgrinder. The sheer disregard for human life is disgusting
If Putin is overthrown the people most likely to overthrow him are hardliners who think he’s being a cuck by not immediately nuking Kiev and Washington.
So it’s a good thing that there’s basically zero indication of major internal political stability in Russia. Even the Wagner “coup” only asked for Shoigu and Gerasimov to be removed, not Putin.
Why are they sending hundreds of thousands of working class people of both Ukraine, Russia and third countries to kill each other then, if it’s really about the governments’ wrongdoings?
Why not support revolutionaries within Russia, helping the Russians to dispose of their own government? Why does NATO have to be involved as an actor in the first place? Why do workers have to murder each other on front lines? The governments’ and militaries’ support should be constrained strictly to humanitarian support and help, not weapons.
Both governments and their national capital are the enemy. It is a war between two economies over geopolitical control over Ukraine, fought by and written in blood of people who don’t profit from either side of the war. No Ukrainian soldier or Russian soldier wins at the end of the day. Whichever side wins, it is going to end in a bloodbath and further oppression. Sure, a Russian win would be worse in the long run, but the Ukrainian government and NATO countries ain’t no saints either, and is certainly not the side I would like to die for.
Though I personally don’t know who of the two evils would be the worse win in the long run, yes, agreed, very much this.
Russia would certainly impose its oppressive social stances on the territory including its homophobia, sexism, racism, patriarchal order, lack of freedom of press and so on. This would probably not be as bad under a NATO-aligned European government (although the West has been known to bring fascists to power if necessary), which uses its slight edge in progressivism as a useful propaganda shield.
Both would however use it as a geopolitical pressure point for further aggression, stationing nuclear weapons, economically colonize the war-torn ruins by “helping rebuild”, and subduing the local population and labor rights. Zelensky disbanded unions and the right to strike, abolished gay marriage for the duration of the war to prevent gay refugees from taking their husbands with them, banned socialist movements and is draconic against draft dodgers and peace activists (even those without Russian ties). The Ukrainian army stations troops in civilian places to hide them, endangering their own people, incorporate and welcome neo-nazis into their military as part of some kind of popular front, and use banned weapons. On the other side, Russia does all of these too and commits war crimes left and right, so it is not like they are any more welcome in my eyes.
Either outcome would (in the long term) be worse for the people of Ukraine, Russia, the rest of Europe and probably the world. The war would not stop after Ukraine.
As long as our economy is steered by the whims of wealthy people seeking to maximize their profits and not by any democratic process, we will have these issues over and over again as at some point the only direction the economy could grow is into other countries. It’s no coincidence that China and Russia are the “enemies” of the West when they are the two biggest economies that mainly act in competition to the Western economies. For instance, Amazon would literally kill to get the entire Chinese market, let alone all other American multinationals. And with the power that money and capital has, a war is possible to incite based on that desire to expand to “enemy countries”. Same with the Chinese and Russian economies. Tencent and Gazprom would love to control their respective Western markets.
good thoughtful post
Absolutely fair point, you may well be right. I pretty much agree on all points.
You do realize that America already overthrew Russia’s government once, and that is how Putin came to be in the first place, right? You expect cycle #2 to go better?
Lmao. I’m sure they’ll overthrow the government, just like the Americans did to their own government after invading Vietnam and Iraq. Have you seen what the Russian government is doing to mild protestors? Black bagged, sent off to who knows where, doing who knows what. It’s Kent State by like 500x. This isn’t 1980s USSR. The people there support Putin. And those who don’t and protest are still denounced by the west for not doing enough, as if westerners have ever succeeded in holding their governments accountable.
The most realistic outcome is that Putin resigns in disgrace and 20 years later they make shoot and cry movies about Russian soldiers in Ukraine. And then they’ll rehabilitate Putin as a strong leader anyway.
The people surrounding Putin who are most likely to replace him are hardliners who think Kiev should be glassed. Part of the motivation behind the Wagner mutiny is Prigo thinking Shoigu isn’t going hard enough in Ukraine. Contrary to liberal bots who only listen to what CNN tells them, it’s good for everyone involved that the Wagner mutiny was completely deflated. There wouldn’t be much of a Ukraine left if Prigo was in charge, and Prigo is not the only one.
Putin has more support than ever…
For gods sake try to imagine this from a Russian perspective. NATO bombs are killing their people.
Like, seriously, imagine how your average American would react to this. Treat the Russians as human for one fucking second.
They are not going to fucking blame Putin for that. They will blame NATO!!!
time is a flat circle
This is the most important proxy war of our lifetime!
We are killing the Russians to help the Russians
The help Ukraine is getting will go to nill when these fascists finally lose
Once again a westoid proves Ukrainian lives don’t matter to them.
This Ukraine stuff is a war where 100.000 war crimes were reported, tens of thousands of civilians were killed raped and tortured, where hundreds of thousands of people lost their house.
I wouldn’t say it’s $900 per household because
You must be joking, 100K war crimes??? 10K rapes??? This isn’t Rwanda.
The government of Ukraine reports 103.325 war crimes, 9444 killed civilians, 16940 injured civilians. (war.ukraine.ua). You may legitimately considered these numbers inflated by the Ukrainian government, for this reason I can redirect you to the Wikipedia page https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine containing plentiful of references and sources.
Are you genuinely going to believe numbers given by literal Nazis?
Why do you think the Ukrainians are Nazi? You’re clearly failing to understand that having a Nazi problem (like any country) does not imply the government is Nazi. You have seen images of men with their tattooed arms right? How does it mean that the government is Nazi? It’s Kremlin’s propaganda to discredit Ukrainians. Go see the polls and see how many far-right parties got (2%).
I linked a Wikipedia page, so there’s no need to “believe” as the war crimes are documented.
Now look at who’s committing genocide, deportations and tortures.
And that Wikipedia article has absolutely shit sources so it should only be laughed at
They let Nazis in the government through the Azov are in the military and allow Nazis in the military. That is the government.
You haven’t heard of hyperbole, clearly. But it’s not far from the truth. Russia commits war crimes every day. It’s all their military is good for. They can’t fight a real force, so they blow up and murder civilians instead. To claim otherwise is misinformed at best, actively dishonest at worst.
Ok, Jen! 😂 I guess those leopards and bradleys blew up by themselves…
Oh, Jen 🤣 those kindergartens blew up by themselves
You mean the one that Ukrainian Mi-17 fell on to? Or the one hit by an AD Ukrainian missile? 🤷🏼
No, I mean this this, this, this and more. Thank you, have a nice day.
P.S. Let’s not forget about the killing of innocent civilians in Bucha with their hands handcuffed
These are all either shot-down missiles (AD inside urban areas is a war crime, though) or failed/jammed AD missiles themselves.
It’s weird, then, that the US lapdogs ICC never mentioned Bucha as a pretext for the arrest warrant, don’t you think?