This will my last response I hope. We disagree. Point 1 Communist ideology always historically led to totalitarianism. It happened here. It happened everywhere else and I think there is nothing to fix about it. If you disagree on this point then I have nothing to say. There are so many examples. It is also complex so I will not expand much. Moving power vacuums from elite into state. Centralisation of power will inevitably lead to someone seizing it. 2)Yes, different law enforcement. No clue how it work in practice. Communists themselves probably do not know either. 3)Holy shit. I do not care about most, but Czechia does not want Socialism. This is tankie opinion push. We recently got rid of successor to the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia. Too late and no one except truly old and connected wants it back. We have been trying to shrug off this culture and corruption for the last 30 years. No thanks. 4) I disagree. 5)I will ignore this, because it is too much waste of time. Science did not properly even exist at the time.EDIT: I meant that terminology was different. Wikipedia. Communist idiot is trying to make me look like idiot. Poor choice of words. Science absolutely existed, but when I quickly checked wiki, it was written there that those words had slightly different meaning. I was in a hurry and I have no clue how that could happen in 19th century. 6) Capitalism has ideals? Turn into one monopol or something? Nothing else comes mind. Tldr? 7)I think I never said socialism in entire post. I was trying to get closer on how real communism should more or less look like. What we had here was socialism. You will say some bullshit about it no being real socialism, but I think I waste time. 8) YOU. PUT. ALL. POWER. INTO. A. STATE. When that happens, people in power take advantage of it. What happens is the only logical conclusion. It happened every single time. What is there to not understand? Do not tell me that we want back this monstrous system. Capitalism is much better for us.
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Fuck. What did it say? I was deleting comment and did the wrong one or someone did wipe. Tons? Tons of dead people? Yes, communists here murdered literal tons of people and if you intend to deny existence of victims of any regime then we have nothing to further talk about.
I proved them that fucking Staling would bring better future? We had here communist regime and it was utter bullshit and everyone knew. What has changed with people? What points am I exactly proving to you? EDIT: Wrong thread. Never mind.
Tons of people on Lemmy think that Stalin would bring about egalitarian and just future. Stop lying.
I admit that I have made 3 mistakes. 1. I tried(still do) to explain communism to communist, 2. above post is from the top of my head and 3. we will not change our minds, because 1.
“What’s utopian is painting a picture of the minutia of what communist society will look like, that’s what you’re doing now and what every Marxist repudiates” I smell butthurt. If you think that stateless(without any autority) and utopian society is possible today or in future for human species(we know today. Power-hungry, greedy, selfish and materialistic, which then turns into power-hungry rulers that always use communist ideology for their gain. Always dictatorship. Always tyranny.) then there are the doors and go say this fairy tale to some idiot.
No law enforcement? I cannot find this now, but police is literally tool of state. It would have different form in truly communist society and that society would basically treat itself as one big family so I am lazy to think how this would work at all.
Factories and shops? You do realize that you would still work under real communism, right? Communist regime here prided itself at work. Everyone had to work. We even had anti-parasitic laws where police would start to look for you, if you missed the job for 3 days. It might have different form (so not factory or shop), but that is how it would roll. “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”. You work and then you take what you need. Like one big family. Does not work. Even family has authoritative figure that “corrects” your needs. Also, common ownership in family only works, because you know them. I assume we are both workers and I give exactly zero shit, if you are alive or not, which means that I will never share property with you, because I have no reason to do so.
“You’ve made up your own image of communism in your mind and have decided that’s what everybody else thinks, and use your own utopia to discredit scientific socialists” COPE and ideological language. “scientific socialists” sounds like another cope. Let me guess. Bogus science, bogus theory, bogus future predictions.
Why would someone living under communism have to educate themselves on communist ideals? People living under capitalism don’t educate themselves on capitalist ideals, they take it completely for granted because that’s the status quo
First, there are no capitalist ideals. Capitalism does not intend to go somewhere. Capitalism just wants to consume and use everything around in the most efficient way(when regulated!!!). In fact, if there ever is some higher society, my bet is that capitalism will get us there, which means that I do not have to do anything(especially worship ideology that killed millions), because we already make ground breaking discoveries in biology(?) every year + advancement of AI. I think that no amount of “evil elite”(populism by the way) would ever be able to stop the inevitable progress.
Education was tightly controlled by communists here. After coup in 1948, they basically seized the whole educational apparatus. Especially colleges that were then meant to promote communist ideology. Education is necessary for communist society to run. I am lazy and I am wasting my time on you. I think I already mentioned it above. Human error of communist ideology. You need opposite of what people currently are. Educated, caring, altruistic, etc. Utopia. Then again, under communist regimes in our reality, communists really only used education to control people. Historical revisionism of communists is notorious.
Where are all the dead people? Do you also have there step by step quide on how to achieve this utopia? Also, you do not own anything. Also, fuck off with tankie shit.
Eastern Bloc was capitalism? That is really new to me. No, it was socialism. This is a COPE.
I will try. Communism is utopia in its base. Good start? No state, money, no police(yes, you do need law enforcement to have a running society). Under Communism, you would work in the factory and then you would go into a shop and take the bread that you exactly need. Am I doing a good job at it? There would be no need to reeducate anyone, because absolutely every person would educate themselves about communist ideals. Does this sound like something that should ever work? Communism treats people like robots.
We had here *Uranium mines for political dissidents so…
EDIT: No protections, of course. They were sent there to die.
Poland? UA? WTF?! What are your sources, sir? This looks and very likely is bullshit. My grandparents would never vote for the communists.
EDIT: Tankies are persistent and I did not want to write where I live so here it goes. Czechia is utter bullshit. We still have Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia and it has been recently voted out of parliament. Finally. 30 years too late.
Now do communism. No wonder they absolutely hate each other. Heaven in the next life or heaven 5 minutes away. “It will work this time! We can do better!”
science didn’t exist at the time … Wikipedia says that it had different terminology. Where mistake? EDIT: Poor choice of words. I was in hurry to end this. I will summarize what I wrote. Socialism puts all power into state->totalitarianism. No thanks. Czechia truly does not want Socialism. We have here communist disgraces, but they are really just pro-Russia. Nothing communist about them. Trying to predict details of communism is… utopia? Am I translating this right? How are even supposed to build communism when we currently cannot predict it? EDIT: It is also funny how you took that science out of context.