And taking into context that articles and opinions of “look at how evil and bad and irredeemable country and its people is” is apologizing for authoritarianism. If you are not cheering for the overthrow of the Iranian government simply because the US would do everything to make something worse result from it, you are a “tankie” and what blahaj and .world mean by the word.
After talking with you and seeing your opinions, I don’t think you’re a campist (or ‘tankie’). There’s way too much nuance for that. I may disagree with some of your points, but I follow your logic and you don’t seem to be just repeating propaganda. I obviously can’t speak for any instance admins or other users anywhere on the fediverse, I’m just talking for myself and my opinions.
Russian paranoia of a hostile military alliance moving closer to its borders (NATO was supposedly only supposed to defend against the Warsaw Pact, though NATO pre-dated it)
The issue with that line of thinking is that NATO is a voluntary alliance. Generally speaking, here in eastern Europe, countries join NATO when they feel threatened by Russia. We’ve seen that pattern play out over and over: Russia plays brinksmanship over their border, violating airspace, testing limits, etc, and countries join. Finland and Sweden specifically joined in direct response to the Russo-Ukraine war.
A large part of the accusations of “tankie” is not agreeing with “Russia evil orcs, Ukrainians are perfect elven defenders of Western Civilization”.
I hope I’ve made it clear that that is not at all my point of view on the topic. Again, can’t talk for anyone else.
But ever acknowledging that Russia would be upset by the CIA helping to install a hostile government on its border, with plans to join a hostile military alliance, is tankieism.
The issue with this is that most of the countries involved have relatively recent memories of Russification, forced compliance with first the Russian Empire, then the USSR. I absolutely agree that the CIA would and has helped these movements, but as you say, the CIA can’t wave a magic wand and summon these movements. They have to exist, and they have to be large.
This has become significantly more apparent since 2022 where the actual conscripts that are grabbed off the streets are sent to their death as cannon fodder, so that Azov or Aidar can take advantage of the softened line and expended munitions to try to attack a possible weak point.
This sounds like an inversion of the classic “USSR/Russian meatwave” meme. It’s ridiculous when people talk about it when it comes to Russians, as if they have some mythical predisposition to throwing their soldiers lives away for no gain, and it’s equally ridiculous when people attribute that to the Ukrainian military. Both sides have suffered grueling losses due to the nature of the combat, and the learning curve with modern drone combat.
I hope though, while you’re almost definitely aware of the war crimes of the Azov and Aidar battalions, you’re also aware of the long list of war crimes of various Russian units. From the intentional striking of civilian targets (including hospitals), torture of civilians, abduction of children, gang rapes, and more. I 100% agree that Ukrainians aren’t ‘perfect elven defenders of the west’, but let’s be very very clear about what the Russian military is doing.
This sounds like an inversion of the classic “USSR/Russian meatwave” meme. It’s ridiculous when people talk about it when it comes to Russians, as if they have some mythical predisposition to throwing their soldiers lives away for no gain
It is not this inversion or repeating of propaganda. There has been a long stream of news about the press gangs and there seems to currently be an inflection point of Western Europe and US media needing to acknowledge the level of violent and desperate conscriptions over the last weeks (just to concretely cite a single source rather than keep being vague and handwavey, https://eventsinukraine.substack.com/ has tracked the use of conscription press gangs as a Ukrainian journalist that had been living in Ukraine). It is not just a “Human Meatwave” type of mentality, but an acknowledgement of the reality of the tragedy of Ukraine in this whole war. It was one of only a few former Soviet Republics to not have its per-capita GDP recover to its 1991 level after shock therapy and was considered the most corrupt nation on earth until the war motivated western sources to fake the numbers. The economic out-migration caused Ukraine to be in a deep demographic crisis before the war even started. The reason for the press gangs and very violent conscription is because of the population and manpower difference. Russia can throw away an equal amount of lives to Ukraine while only maintaining limited conscription, but Ukraine has to try to get as many able bodied men as it can.
The description came down to the ultra-nationalist/neo-nazi groups vs the conscripts. Because they are motivated by nationalism and views of racial supremacy, the neo-nazi groups have higher morale and are more dedicated than the conscripts pulled off the streets. This means that the conscripts are used in the high risk or earlier waves of any operation, since the neo-nazi groups are more valuable units due to their higher levels of training and esprit de corps.
After talking with you and seeing your opinions, I don’t think you’re a campist (or ‘tankie’). There’s way too much nuance for that. I may disagree with some of your points, but I follow your logic and you don’t seem to be just repeating propaganda. I obviously can’t speak for any instance admins or other users anywhere on the fediverse, I’m just talking for myself and my opinions.
The issue with that line of thinking is that NATO is a voluntary alliance. Generally speaking, here in eastern Europe, countries join NATO when they feel threatened by Russia. We’ve seen that pattern play out over and over: Russia plays brinksmanship over their border, violating airspace, testing limits, etc, and countries join. Finland and Sweden specifically joined in direct response to the Russo-Ukraine war.
I hope I’ve made it clear that that is not at all my point of view on the topic. Again, can’t talk for anyone else.
The issue with this is that most of the countries involved have relatively recent memories of Russification, forced compliance with first the Russian Empire, then the USSR. I absolutely agree that the CIA would and has helped these movements, but as you say, the CIA can’t wave a magic wand and summon these movements. They have to exist, and they have to be large.
This sounds like an inversion of the classic “USSR/Russian meatwave” meme. It’s ridiculous when people talk about it when it comes to Russians, as if they have some mythical predisposition to throwing their soldiers lives away for no gain, and it’s equally ridiculous when people attribute that to the Ukrainian military. Both sides have suffered grueling losses due to the nature of the combat, and the learning curve with modern drone combat.
I hope though, while you’re almost definitely aware of the war crimes of the Azov and Aidar battalions, you’re also aware of the long list of war crimes of various Russian units. From the intentional striking of civilian targets (including hospitals), torture of civilians, abduction of children, gang rapes, and more. I 100% agree that Ukrainians aren’t ‘perfect elven defenders of the west’, but let’s be very very clear about what the Russian military is doing.
It is not this inversion or repeating of propaganda. There has been a long stream of news about the press gangs and there seems to currently be an inflection point of Western Europe and US media needing to acknowledge the level of violent and desperate conscriptions over the last weeks (just to concretely cite a single source rather than keep being vague and handwavey, https://eventsinukraine.substack.com/ has tracked the use of conscription press gangs as a Ukrainian journalist that had been living in Ukraine). It is not just a “Human Meatwave” type of mentality, but an acknowledgement of the reality of the tragedy of Ukraine in this whole war. It was one of only a few former Soviet Republics to not have its per-capita GDP recover to its 1991 level after shock therapy and was considered the most corrupt nation on earth until the war motivated western sources to fake the numbers. The economic out-migration caused Ukraine to be in a deep demographic crisis before the war even started. The reason for the press gangs and very violent conscription is because of the population and manpower difference. Russia can throw away an equal amount of lives to Ukraine while only maintaining limited conscription, but Ukraine has to try to get as many able bodied men as it can.
The description came down to the ultra-nationalist/neo-nazi groups vs the conscripts. Because they are motivated by nationalism and views of racial supremacy, the neo-nazi groups have higher morale and are more dedicated than the conscripts pulled off the streets. This means that the conscripts are used in the high risk or earlier waves of any operation, since the neo-nazi groups are more valuable units due to their higher levels of training and esprit de corps.