• NewDark@lemmy.today
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    2 days ago

    Oh, so Russia should just exterminate the entire population and take that entire landmass. You’ve painted the entire country with the same broad brush and they obviously deserve it. The hundreds of thousands of people dying on both sides with surly root out the Nazi scurge and not legitimize them as a defensive force. /s in case it wasn’t mega clear.

    You’re correct, there are some Nazis in Ukraine and it’s certainly close to Nato and a possible threat on Russia’s border. It’s complicated. An irridentist invasion and war is not based actually, for everyone involved.

    • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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      2 days ago

      Russia has never said they plan on genocide, nor have they said they plan on taking the entirety of Ukraine. So you’re just making things up.

      • NewDark@lemmy.today
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        2 days ago

        It’s hyperbolic. What are you willing to accept in the name of “killing Nazis”?

          • NewDark@lemmy.today
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            2 days ago

            Assuming every Ukrainian is a Nazi, and every Russian isn’t (which is obviously extreme on both ends, but let’s simplify and take a maximalist position favoring you.)

            There’s a lot of estimates out there, but taking rough middle estimates, 500k Ukrainian forces have been killed, and 1,250k Russian forces. So you think it is good, logical even, to melt 2.5 non Nazis in favor of killing one? Would you sacrifice your life and a friend or family member to kill one Ukrainian Nazi?

            • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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              2 days ago

              I haven’t made any of those assumptions or said any of those things, so I’m not sure what imaginary person you’re arguing against

              • frozenspinach@lemmy.ml
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                20 hours ago

                I haven’t made any of those assumptions or said any of those things, so I’m not sure what imaginary person you’re arguing against

                You made all kinds of open ended comments about “Nazi’s getting murked” as your basic characterization of what Russia is doing in Ukraine, not measuring it against any limiting principle of civilian casualties or basically anything else. You’re leaving everyone else to do your work for you of quantifying what you mean. If you are denying that the civilian vs nazi death rate is acceptable, that would negate everything you said, but you’re conveniently leaving untouched literally any question that would reality check or sanity check your vague generalities.

              • NewDark@lemmy.today
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                2 days ago

                The only explanation for not distancing yourself from your Nazi history and instead leaning into it is because you’re a Nazi.

                Seems pretty cut and dry to me, but I’m not a Nazi so that makes me pretty biased based

                They’re killing Nazis and they’re justified in doing it. Seems like you think it’s worth the cost to you, but I don’t know what you believe. So what is your position here?

    • Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]@hexbear.net
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      2 days ago

      Oh, so Russia should just exterminate the entire population and take that entire landmass

      Why do you keep pretending that that is what has been happening?

      An irridentist invasion and war is not based actually, for everyone involved.

      What should a state do when the most prolific invader in the world gathers personnel and weapons on that state’s borders, especially after said most prolific invader completes a coup against a neighbouring neutral state?

      • NewDark@lemmy.today
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        2 days ago

        So, become the invader? Start the war? That seems to be what you think should happen right?

        • Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]@hexbear.net
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          2 days ago

          Firstly, if you cannot suggest a serious alternative, you do not have an argument against the actions of such a state in this regard.

          Secondly, the most prolific invader in the world attempting to attack a country is what starts a war, rather than the retaliation and preventative measures of the other state.

          Thirdly, it is public knowledge that NATO was trying to start a war with Russia, but miscalculated.

          • NewDark@lemmy.today
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            2 days ago

            My serious alternative is defend against invasion, don’t invade other countries. Pre-empting invasion with your own invasion is some Israel in 1969 logic

            • Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]@hexbear.net
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              24 hours ago

              My serious alternative is defend against invasion, don’t invade other countries.

              That wouldn’t help the opposition to the most prolific invader in the world in any way, and it would allow the aggressor to do whatever they want for longer.
              Your suggestion doesn’t even help in the best-case scenario where the aggressor loses, as the invaded state still has to go through a counter-offensive over all the same areas, except the aggressor now has more resources to fight with.

              So, this is not a serious alternative.

              Pre-empting invasion with your own invasion is some Israel in 1969 logic

              This is an extremely silly comparison, considering that Pissrael is literally a genocidal settler-colony and is on the side of/is part of the most prolific invader in the world, and is not opposed to it in any way.

              • NewDark@lemmy.today
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                23 hours ago

                So, you think America is going to invade Russia, two nuclear armed nations? Or did you think a country the size of Ukraine was going to do it first? (maybe excluding invading Crimea). Why would Ukraine invade exactly?

                • Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]@hexbear.net
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                  21 hours ago

                  Firstly, going to note that you still have not produced a serious alternative (your previous suggestion is simply to give more advantages to the most prolific invader in the world) and are still avoiding the question of how a state should approach described aggression.

                  So, you think America is going to invade Russia

                  NATO has already admitted to have started the war with Russia on purpose, and NATO has been striking Russian civilians, and has done a failed invasion in the Kursk oblast.

                  two nuclear armed nations?

                  So, if a state has nukes, you consider it okay for NATO to attack them?

                  Or did you think a country the size of Ukraine was going to do it first?

                  This is a bizarre question, considering that Ukraine isn’t the sole de facto part of NATO, and isn’t even sovereign. It is wholly subjugated by NATO since 2014, and does not make its own decisions.
                  Ukraine is also obviously not limited to the resources it would be limited to if it wasn’t a glorified NATO military base.

                  Why would Ukraine NATO invade exactly?

                  For the same reason NATO has been invading everywhere else, like in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Vietnam, Palestine, Korea, etc. - colonial subjugation of the rest of the world.

                  • NewDark@lemmy.today
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                    20 hours ago

                    You understand the concept of mutually assured destruction right?

                    And what’s crazy about all those countries you’ve listed is none of them have nuclear arms.

    • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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      2 days ago

      Oh, so Russia should just exterminate the entire population and take that entire landmass.

      When you’re a very serious person with a well- grounded understanding of what other governments want and how wars work.

      Who could forget world War 2, when the entire population of Germany was destroyed?

      • frozenspinach@lemmy.ml
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        20 hours ago

        Who could forget world War 2, when the entire population of Germany was destroyed?

        I can’t think of a more fundamental breakdown in critical thinking than responding to concerns about civilian deaths by splitting hairs about whether 100% of the population was destroyed. Nearly identical to how Israel justifies genocide.

      • NewDark@lemmy.today
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        2 days ago

        It’s hyperbole.

        And famously the Nazis were just chilling out in Germany and they got invaded by another country.

        • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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          2 days ago

          If it’s hyperbole it sounds exactly like what 5 thousand dipshits have told me sincerely

          And famously the Nazis were just chilling out in Germany and they got invaded by another country.

          Actually they were doing ethnic cleansing, like the Ukranian government was.