What do you use for syncing your password manager between your Android phone and your PC? Apparently Nextcloud doesn’t support two-way syncing on Android for some reason, and Syncthing-Fork is still untrustworthy since the disastrous handover. The AI generated profile picture of researchxxl doesn’t exactly inspire confidence either, neither does his GitHub bio:
Hi! My name is Jonas and I like to use my coding skills from games and modding to continue work on the Syncthing for Android wrapper.
Everything about this person screams vibe coder.
Bitwarden is an alternative, but I don’t like how non-standard it is. It’s cumbersome to manage and backup, meanwhile the KeePass format is just a file that I can backup wherever and however I want and there are many frontends to choose from.
Have you solved this?
I use Vaultwarden. Each synced device is a backup, so there’s no real need to keep anything further than that, but I do keep one backup of the server files anyway.
Yeah, that’s a good point. There are still a few cons though:
- If the server goes down (or your internet connection goes down), you can’t add entries to your database. Local changes aren’t allowed.
- Bitwarden doesn’t support supplementing your passphrase with a key file.
- The Bitwarden clients aren’t enitrely FOSS as far as I understand, the SDK used has a non-free license.
There are pros and cons in both alternatives, and there is unfortunately not a perfect solution. I like the idea and philosophy behind the KeePass format, so the increase in syncing complexity is worth it (for now at least).
Selfhost Vaultwarden. Browsers Bittwarden extensions and Android with Keyguard app.
bitwarden
seems odd you say how cumbersome it is to manage and backup (not an issue I’ve faced though) and yet you are using some cumbersome alternative ?
I share your sentiment about Syncthing-Fork and the botched handoff to researchxxl. I have yet to implement the Termux-based workaround that allows me to use Syncthing from the browser without the Android app / wrapper. It looks pretty clean as it’s just pure Syncthing with a little starter script.
For say a keypass db you don’t need even that, Just sshd gets you rsync on your computer with cron or systemd timer / service… Personally I just use an old version of Syncthing-Fork though, security implications for local network are minimal.
Tbh, I’ve never bothered to figure out how SSHing into an Android device works.
You’re right about the security of older versions of Synching-Fork if you remember to configure it to only do syncs locally (it’s not configured like that by default).
Passwords Nextcloud app
I still think a syncthing client of some form is ideal. As someone else mentioned there is the option of using the Syncthing Tray devs experimental android build. To avoid issues with sync-conflicts / maintain high-availability access to the most recent file, I sync the databse to a raspberry pi with the encryption option selected (not that the pi is untrusted per se, but it is a device that doesn’t need access to the file, it just serves the most recent changes to other devices since often my laptop / phone / desktop are not all on at the same time).
On Android I use KeePassDx Syncthing-Fork. The handover was rough but the maintainer of the Play version joined researchxxl’s team. Many on the Syncthing forum seem to have accepted research which is good enough for me. Also, KeePass’s database in encrypted so no danger there.
Do you store TOTP in a seperate KeePass?
For me swappog between two Keepass DBs is annoying. I can’t find anything that will sync my 2FAs.
Vaultwarden handles the syncing for me.
However I do export backups on both my phone and laptop just in case.
Do you do it manually into e.g. protected json, or to a normal zip (the former doesn’t support attachments as far as I know)? Or have you found a way to do it automatically? One con that I’ve read about this is that backups from one version is not guaranteed to work on another version. Thanks.
Well with Vaultwarden any synced device is a complete backup. So you don’t need to worry about version issues.
KeePass2Android:
I use keepass2android and “sync” via its native WebDAV support with my nextcloud instance as the source. Been working great forever.
I just switched back to vaultwarden. My vaultwarden data is backed up as part of my nightly backups. Desktop and android use bitwarden clients. Seeing as https://codeberg.org/small-hack/open-slopware/src/branch/main states keepassxc is using AI to create PRs. Otherwise you could see how seafile might work for you to sync your keepass db. If you are on android with termux you can run syncthing in termux which also works and avoids the issue with the syncthing fork
i self host, and back up, vaultwarden, and use bitwarden in browser and android.
I use KeepassDX syncing via Nextcloud, works flawlessly. I also used to use Keepass2Android, also works very well.
Can you elaborate on the “nextcloud doesn’t support 2-way syncing on android” statement? I can sync my Keepass database back and forth without issues.
I’m talking about this issue: https://github.com/nextcloud/android/issues/19
I see where you’re coming from. I also really wanted that in my early days of android and nextcloud. Turns out, nowadays you don’t really need that for most use cases, and definitely not for KeePass syncing. Nextcloud app for android exposes all the files via content framework and KeePassDX can sync two ways via that. Other apps like Keepass2Android even have direct nextcloud support via WebDAV, though these days I prefer KeePassDX a little bit more for unrelated reasons.
I recommend you try either KeePassDX or Keepass2Android and see for yourself.
Also, most file managers support CF and will show you your nextcloud files as if they were real files on the device, even without “real” two way sync, and most other apps will be able to save & open files directly from nextcloud.
I’m currently using KeePassDX and I’ve set up the Nextcloud server and downloaded the Android app. I’ll give it another shot. Can you explain more how you’ve set this up for yourself? What does CF mean, and what file manager do you recommend?
Thanks!
CF = content framework, android somehow decided that users shall not see and interact with “real” files and instead, have apps like nextcloud act like content providers and expose a file-like API …whatever, it is what it is, but in the end it works.
I’m currently using Material Files, but even android’s default file manager, bundled with the OS, shows Nextcloud in the left sidebar (your mileage may vary on this one, as each phone vendor tend to customize it a bit).
As for my setup, there’s really not much to it: I selfhost nextcloud, have KeePassDX and the Nextcloud app, and when you setup KeePassDX, select “Open existing vault” and in the sidebar you should be able to select Nextcloud and pick files from there.
Note: For Material files, and most file managers really, nextcloud might not show up by default (“security” or something), but you can “add external storage” and give it permissions.
I managed to get it up and running now, thank you! It wasn’t intuitive at all, compared to using nextcloud-client on the desktop. I’ll try this for a while and see if it works for me.
Glad to help!
Yeah, self-hosting often means trading more control for less convenience, some times more than others. Either way, I hope this setup works for you!
I am also using KeepassDX and Nextcloud. I’ve had this setup for years and never had an issue with syncing.
I migrated out of keypass and into vaultwarden, not looked back since.
I use passwordstore.org which is basically a bash script that wraps GPG; but there is an Android client as well.
Everything is stored in encrypted files tracked by git. Files are synchronized by git/SSH to a server I run.
Are there mechanisms for fully automatic synchronization on every file change and every initialization in the Android and console apps for password-store out of the box these days? Using Syncthing with password-store at the moment to get a user experience as close to that as possible. Had to switch from the Android app to Termux and the CLI because the app no longer supports usage with Syncthing.
I actually used
passmany years ago and I quite enjoyed it, except for the fact that the entry names are presented in clear text. You’d also have to manage your GPG secret which I’m not a fan of (in fact, my password manager is how I usually manage GPG and SSH keys in the first place). On the other hand, I guess you should keep a key file on each device on top of a passphrase even if you use a KeePass database, so I guess that point is moot. There are also no good way to include attachments. At that point Vaultwarden feels more convenient, but the more I’m thinking about it, the more I’m warming up to the idea. We’ll see, maybe I’ll give it a shot again.Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Edit: I did some quick research and I found this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-qBChKG15Y
It brings up some pretty important security concern that still seem to be relevant.
smbsync2
