My defense of China is that the vast majority of people did not support independence, and that the government was far more leniant towards the protestors than a western government would have been. How would you have suggested China respond to the protests?
How many times do I have to condemn every government and then tell you to shut the fuck up and address the issues with this government, the one we are talking about, and not other ones?
Right… that’s what the protests were over. They were still a colony and not an autonomous zone with a local government which cooperated with the national government. They were protesting to stay a colony. 100%
Edit: how about everyone stops lying and just presents good faith arguments instead of easily dismissed attempts at conflating reality with some westerncentric fantasy.
Edit2: btw “harm reduction is okay and makes up for everything when it’s MY authoritarian camp perpetuating violence against innocents!”
Edit3: “our atrocities are justifiable because they serve the greater good! 🤓”
Who said atrocities are justifiable? Didn’t I just agree with you it was bad?
You’re the one that brought up Hong Kong as a “this was bad therefore it’s totally ridiculous to say anything positive about China.” I agree with the first part, but not the second nor the connection.
Maybe it’s not a majority, I don’t know, but at least some of the protesters were wishing to stay a UK colony; the Union Jack was much in evidence (which is pretty wild really). Or were those CPC provocateurs or something? If you tell me that was a vocal and ridiculous minority, that’s fine, I wasn’t there, I’ll believe you.
Look man, I’m happy people were brave and cool and protested for what they believed in, even if it’s not what I believe in, and it’s bad Chinese cops/authorities/whatever hurt them for it. I don’t know why that would mean I should think that saying good things about China is wrong. I also think the surveillance and mistreatment of the Uyghurs is bad…like way worse than what happened in Hong Kong. There are also lots of good things to say about China.
This is a propaganda piece which intends to use America’s blatant authoritarianism, atrocities, etc as an opportunity to white wash China’s government as “comparatively good”.
It’s fine to talk about the good aspects of China. There’s no need to directly compare it to America unless you’re making propaganda.
Propaganda likes to ignore inconvenient truths and propagandists tend to downvote them.
Edit: tell me more about the Union Jack stuff. AFAIK Hong Kong had a locally elected government and it cooperated with the Chinese government as part of the Chinese government. No idea what you’re talking about, or why there was even a notion of them staying a “UK colony”. That just sounds like propaganda to me because, again, they literally had a locally elected government? Were there people that wanted to REJOIN the UK government?
I mean, I do understand that context; it is a propaganda piece portraying China as comparatively better than the US.
China is comparatively better than the U.S.
Making propaganda to that effect is good.
Everything is propaganda. You’re doing anti-China propaganda; I’m doing pro-China propaganda. with a veneer of nuance or whatever but my words have political meaning and so do yours…
I’ve never understood how any expression of political thought could not be propaganda… or that there’s an especially good/principled way to separate what you and me are doing from whatever you mean by propaganda…if it’s a government paying for it I really don’t think OP qualifies…or else the PRC should get its fuckin money back lol
The difference is the target, the intention, and the means of transmission.
I’m making a comment on a thread. Maybe 3 people will read this. I am coming in without a pro- bias of any kind, only with anti-atrocity bias.
Atrocities are something both governments are guilty of.
Yet the prevailing opinion (among tankies, anyway) is “China is the best and everything is okay and this is considered critical support because when pushed I cannot defend those things and will be forced to admit that they did bad things… but forget those bad things, look at how bad America is!”
I’m actually not doing anti-China propaganda. I’m interested in Chinese policy in a lot of ways and am not always opposed to them. What I am doing is pointing out the hypocrisy and inability for some people to hold authoritarians accountable because it’s THEIR brand of authoritarianism.
Edit: also, making propaganda which intentionally white washes authoritarian regimes with a penchant for violence against those who protest is… nope, still not good. Listen. Just grow a fucking backbone. Just gain some moral consistency. Maybe not you? But you can’t tell me the prevailing opinion around here isn’t “fuck Blue MAGA they support genocide, I’d rather just not vote”. And guess what? Those people aren’t keeping that same energy when their favorite “communist” state is under the microscope.
lol hong kong
Edit: if your best meme and viral defense of china is “america bad”, then it’s not good enough lmao
Edit: downvoting but not refuting? 😔 shocker
It’s good that Hong Kong is no longer a British colony.
Is it also good that citizens were brutalized for protesting?
It’s also not a good thing that the west backed groups to protest, trying to create a repeat of 1989. Only one in six people supported independence to begin with.
How many times do I have to teach you this lesson, old man?
An attack against America is not an adequate defense of China. Do better.
My defense of China is that the vast majority of people did not support independence, and that the government was far more leniant towards the protestors than a western government would have been. How would you have suggested China respond to the protests?
By not brutalizing the protestors? What do you mean? I don’t have to have the correct answer to tell you that brutalizing people is the wrong answer?
Can you elaborate on what you mean by “brutalizing the protestors?” Is there any country on Earth where riots are left alone?
How many times do I have to condemn every government and then tell you to shut the fuck up and address the issues with this government, the one we are talking about, and not other ones?
Nope that’s bad. Cops hurting protesters is bad even when the protesters are wrong.
Less bad than the wrong protesters getting their way and Hong Kong staying a colony of the UK…but still bad, for sure.
Right… that’s what the protests were over. They were still a colony and not an autonomous zone with a local government which cooperated with the national government. They were protesting to stay a colony. 100%
Edit: how about everyone stops lying and just presents good faith arguments instead of easily dismissed attempts at conflating reality with some westerncentric fantasy.
Edit2: btw “harm reduction is okay and makes up for everything when it’s MY authoritarian camp perpetuating violence against innocents!”
Edit3: “our atrocities are justifiable because they serve the greater good! 🤓”
Who said atrocities are justifiable? Didn’t I just agree with you it was bad?
You’re the one that brought up Hong Kong as a “this was bad therefore it’s totally ridiculous to say anything positive about China.” I agree with the first part, but not the second nor the connection.
Maybe it’s not a majority, I don’t know, but at least some of the protesters were wishing to stay a UK colony; the Union Jack was much in evidence (which is pretty wild really). Or were those CPC provocateurs or something? If you tell me that was a vocal and ridiculous minority, that’s fine, I wasn’t there, I’ll believe you.
Look man, I’m happy people were brave and cool and protested for what they believed in, even if it’s not what I believe in, and it’s bad Chinese cops/authorities/whatever hurt them for it. I don’t know why that would mean I should think that saying good things about China is wrong. I also think the surveillance and mistreatment of the Uyghurs is bad…like way worse than what happened in Hong Kong. There are also lots of good things to say about China.
You don’t seem to understand the greater context.
This is a propaganda piece which intends to use America’s blatant authoritarianism, atrocities, etc as an opportunity to white wash China’s government as “comparatively good”.
It’s fine to talk about the good aspects of China. There’s no need to directly compare it to America unless you’re making propaganda.
Propaganda likes to ignore inconvenient truths and propagandists tend to downvote them.
Edit: tell me more about the Union Jack stuff. AFAIK Hong Kong had a locally elected government and it cooperated with the Chinese government as part of the Chinese government. No idea what you’re talking about, or why there was even a notion of them staying a “UK colony”. That just sounds like propaganda to me because, again, they literally had a locally elected government? Were there people that wanted to REJOIN the UK government?
I mean, I do understand that context; it is a propaganda piece portraying China as comparatively better than the US.
China is comparatively better than the U.S.
Making propaganda to that effect is good.
Everything is propaganda. You’re doing anti-China propaganda; I’m doing pro-China propaganda. with a veneer of nuance or whatever but my words have political meaning and so do yours…
I’ve never understood how any expression of political thought could not be propaganda… or that there’s an especially good/principled way to separate what you and me are doing from whatever you mean by propaganda…if it’s a government paying for it I really don’t think OP qualifies…or else the PRC should get its fuckin money back lol
The difference is the target, the intention, and the means of transmission.
I’m making a comment on a thread. Maybe 3 people will read this. I am coming in without a pro- bias of any kind, only with anti-atrocity bias.
Atrocities are something both governments are guilty of.
Yet the prevailing opinion (among tankies, anyway) is “China is the best and everything is okay and this is considered critical support because when pushed I cannot defend those things and will be forced to admit that they did bad things… but forget those bad things, look at how bad America is!”
I’m actually not doing anti-China propaganda. I’m interested in Chinese policy in a lot of ways and am not always opposed to them. What I am doing is pointing out the hypocrisy and inability for some people to hold authoritarians accountable because it’s THEIR brand of authoritarianism.
Edit: also, making propaganda which intentionally white washes authoritarian regimes with a penchant for violence against those who protest is… nope, still not good. Listen. Just grow a fucking backbone. Just gain some moral consistency. Maybe not you? But you can’t tell me the prevailing opinion around here isn’t “fuck Blue MAGA they support genocide, I’d rather just not vote”. And guess what? Those people aren’t keeping that same energy when their favorite “communist” state is under the microscope.