It’s more of a pragmatic position than a political one. The “both sides are the same” people aren’t exactly right, it’s more “both sides are bad”.
As for whether I qualify as a “liberal”, there are so many definitions for the word that it doesn’t matter. In the example though it’s being used as a slur basically. There is nothing worse you can be called on Lemmy than a liberal.
Nobody truly is saying both sides are the exact same down to the atom, but instead that both are beyond bad enough to force us to try to organize outside of them, and far more similar than different. Further, communists aren’t communists simply out of ideals, but out of pragmatism. Voting for democrats is certainly easier, but doesn’t actually fix anything, meaning it isn’t a practical solution.
It’s not a solution, but as you said it’s easier. We can and should do both. Even if voting for the Democrats saves one life from climate change or ICE, it’s worth doing.
What about the cost of the signal sent to the Democrats that their current positions are enough to earn your votes?
I would respond: if not voting for the Democrats (and voting for a party to their left) saves one life from climate change, imperialism, COVID, or ICE because it pressures them to take stronger positions on those issues, it’s also worth doing.
The Democrats make it pretty clear that they do not care about our votes, or about beating Republicans. We have to organize outside of the Democratic party infrastructure, while reluctantly voting for the lesser of two evils.
The measures taken by the DNC have not meaningfully countered climate change, and the DNC funds ICE as well. It’s allowed to be easier because it won’t change anything materially, that’s what I mean by saying both are so bad that neither are acceptable.
If you need to change a lightbulb, and said lightbulb is 20 feet above you, neither a 9 foot nor 10 foot ladder will allow you to get there. The end result is the same, even if both ladders are different and one gets you closer. The hard but practical solution is to find a ladder that can actually reach the bulb!
If you need to change a lightbulb, and said lightbulb is 20 feet above you, neither a 9 foot nor 10 foot ladder will allow you to get there. The end result is the same, even if both ladders are different and one gets you closer. The hard but practical solution is to find a ladder that can actually reach the bulb!
Malcolm X said the same thing after his return from Mecca:
If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there’s no progress. If you pull it all the way out that’s not progress. The progress is healing the wound that’s below, that the blow made. And they haven’t even begun to pull the knife out, much less pull, heal the wound…
They won’t even admit the knife is there.
And of course this fuck-fuck lib defending Hitler doesn’t know both MLK and Malcolm X were assassinated during Democrat administrations. Or how Fred Hampton, Huey Newton, and the Black Panthers were being undermined by the FBI during the same time period. Hampton was assassinated under a Republican, but only a year after LBJ left office. The plot to have him killed started long before his actual death.
“Easier to organize under liberals over conservatives” my ass.
100%, of course there’s a perfectly fitting Malcolm X quote. Fantastic addition, practical examples of the empire murdering organizers in democrat admins really drives the point home. When you stand to change the system, and play outside its rules, both ruling parties will kill you.
Even if the DNC haven’t meaningfully countered climate change, they haven’t done nothing either. They also likely wouldn’t have abolished USAID which, while it existed for propaganda purposes, did save lives.
USAID was used for the purposes of solidifying compradors, and was abolished because it was getting more expensive for reduced gains as imperialism decays. It’s extremely likely that the DNC would have reduced USAID, like the GOP has (and it isn’t abolished, just transformed).
Both the DNC and GOP are servants of capital. The DNC is not a group of “nicer” capitalists. Therefore, we need to overthrow the imperialist system and establish socialism.
Even if the Democrats would’ve cut it USAID, they would’ve been far less sudden about it. According to people who work in humanitarian aid, the suddenness of Trump’s cuts to USAID got a lot of people killed in the developing world.
And the system of sanctions, imperialism propped up by USAID, etc. kill half a million people per year. The DNC would’ve cut the “aid” in a harmful way anyways, meaning the lightbulb isn’t changing. The US Empire isn’t crumbling due to personal choices by the parties, but because imperialism itself is crumbling.
It’s more of a pragmatic position than a political one. The “both sides are the same” people aren’t exactly right, it’s more “both sides are bad”.
As for whether I qualify as a “liberal”, there are so many definitions for the word that it doesn’t matter. In the example though it’s being used as a slur basically. There is nothing worse you can be called on Lemmy than a liberal.
Nobody truly is saying both sides are the exact same down to the atom, but instead that both are beyond bad enough to force us to try to organize outside of them, and far more similar than different. Further, communists aren’t communists simply out of ideals, but out of pragmatism. Voting for democrats is certainly easier, but doesn’t actually fix anything, meaning it isn’t a practical solution.
It’s not a solution, but as you said it’s easier. We can and should do both. Even if voting for the Democrats saves one life from climate change or ICE, it’s worth doing.
What about the cost of the signal sent to the Democrats that their current positions are enough to earn your votes?
I would respond: if not voting for the Democrats (and voting for a party to their left) saves one life from climate change, imperialism, COVID, or ICE because it pressures them to take stronger positions on those issues, it’s also worth doing.
The Democrats make it pretty clear that they do not care about our votes, or about beating Republicans. We have to organize outside of the Democratic party infrastructure, while reluctantly voting for the lesser of two evils.
Wasn’t your whole point that the Democrats would block or at least slow down the Rep? You do realize that this sentence voids the argument right?
The measures taken by the DNC have not meaningfully countered climate change, and the DNC funds ICE as well. It’s allowed to be easier because it won’t change anything materially, that’s what I mean by saying both are so bad that neither are acceptable.
If you need to change a lightbulb, and said lightbulb is 20 feet above you, neither a 9 foot nor 10 foot ladder will allow you to get there. The end result is the same, even if both ladders are different and one gets you closer. The hard but practical solution is to find a ladder that can actually reach the bulb!
Malcolm X said the same thing after his return from Mecca:
And of course this fuck-fuck lib defending Hitler doesn’t know both MLK and Malcolm X were assassinated during Democrat administrations. Or how Fred Hampton, Huey Newton, and the Black Panthers were being undermined by the FBI during the same time period. Hampton was assassinated under a Republican, but only a year after LBJ left office. The plot to have him killed started long before his actual death.
“Easier to organize under liberals over conservatives” my ass.
100%, of course there’s a perfectly fitting Malcolm X quote. Fantastic addition, practical examples of the empire murdering organizers in democrat admins really drives the point home. When you stand to change the system, and play outside its rules, both ruling parties will kill you.
Even if the DNC haven’t meaningfully countered climate change, they haven’t done nothing either. They also likely wouldn’t have abolished USAID which, while it existed for propaganda purposes, did save lives.
That’s true they haven’t done nothing, they’ve opened up a whole bunch of public land for oil drilling
USAID was used for the purposes of solidifying compradors, and was abolished because it was getting more expensive for reduced gains as imperialism decays. It’s extremely likely that the DNC would have reduced USAID, like the GOP has (and it isn’t abolished, just transformed).
Both the DNC and GOP are servants of capital. The DNC is not a group of “nicer” capitalists. Therefore, we need to overthrow the imperialist system and establish socialism.
Even if the Democrats would’ve cut it USAID, they would’ve been far less sudden about it. According to people who work in humanitarian aid, the suddenness of Trump’s cuts to USAID got a lot of people killed in the developing world.
And the system of sanctions, imperialism propped up by USAID, etc. kill half a million people per year. The DNC would’ve cut the “aid” in a harmful way anyways, meaning the lightbulb isn’t changing. The US Empire isn’t crumbling due to personal choices by the parties, but because imperialism itself is crumbling.
“Some of you may die, but it’s a price I am willing to pay for the collapse of the American empire” - Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
You’ve spent this entire conversation loudly espousing your support for various flavors of Hitler. Derision is the least you deserve.
If you think that’s what I’ve been doing, you need better reading comprehension.
The last refuge of the online loser