The reason China has similar policies is because socialism/communism doesn’t work without a capitalist cow to milk.
Do you understand what capitalism is relative to socialism/communism? That the entire premise is that no person owns the means of production, and therefore has zero stake in its success beyond their immediate involvement? How do you motivate people to reach for more, innovate, and strive for greatness when there is no semblance of capitalist enterprise? Nationalist pride? Do you threaten them? How many of the hundreds of examples do you need to see that this does not work?
Star Trek is a beautiful concept on paper - but that’s the problem: as soon as you add humans, it goes to shit. Just look at the Hamas/Israel nonsense. Hamas literally does not care about their lives or children’s lives… The civilians are literally putting out videos stating they will intentionally put themselves under incoming bombs “because this is how we will prove your brutality”.
There’s no chance as long as society has free will. There’s just no way for anything else to work in the long run.
How do you motivate people to reach for more, he asks, on a platform that is literally developed for free. Have you ever thought that people do certain things because they like them ? I see not every job is likable tho. But that’s a different problem, we can try to solve by technology. I know my opinion is also biased but in the end we should try to a bit more open minded.
That is definitely not the flex you thought it was.
Yes, lots of individuals so lots of fun individual things that can be done by individuals for free - hell, you might even find enough people to do an entire open source project!
But guess what?
Those people have actual jobs. You’re pointing at hobbies that only exist because free time is afforded by decent jobs.
Real talk. Socialism works great for much of europe. Look into england, austria, pretty much any Scandinavian country they all have programs and systems focused on supporting workers. That they would never give up.
Second are we talking Big C or little c communism. They are different things. And you are wrong immediately off the bat. Under communism which is not defined as socialism in its entirety. No single person owns the means of production. But people do own the means of production. Under big C communism, let’s call it what it is leninism. They have a warped and twisted definition of who the people are. Expanding it out to a single Nationwide party and that party’s dictatorial leader. That’s very different from communism. Under communism the workers own the means of production. Meaning that if you work in a factory. As a worker of the factory you own a piece of, and have a stake in the factory and its success.
If people require capitalism to motivate them to strive for more. How did we get where we are? Capitalism has only existed a few hundred years. Human history goes back tens of thousands of years. How does that work? Because it really seems like we don’t need capitalism for that. And there’s no evidence showing that communism hinders it either. You do realize that even under the warped leninism that the Soviets used. They industrialized, expanded, had scientific and technological progress alongside the rest of the world. That doesn’t excuse the atrocities that they committed or the capitalists have committed. But that sure doesn’t seem like it puts a damper on striving for more etc.
And if human nature is the biggest roadblock to socialism as you say it is. It’s just as big or bigger a roadblock to capitalism. Your argument against socialism is more of an argument against capitalism. Think about that. I think you mean well. But I also think you have very little idea about what you’re talking about. Which isn’t an insult. When it comes to some Western Nations and especially the united states. We are washed in propaganda and purposefully miseducated.
It’s literally the only thing you have that’s even close. But you wouldn’t give it up. It’s certainly not a capitalist system. Prove how capitalist you are though. Give it up for a system like America’s if you think it’s so adorable.
Strictly speaking universal healthcare isn’t socialist. But it is a logical outcome of socialist policy.
We basically are getting rid slowly mate. They don’t tell you how it takes weeks to see a doctor, or how waiting times for operations are sometimes years.
Weeks to see a doctor is better than not getting to see a doctor. And yes your fascist Tories are working like our fascist Republicans would to get rid of it. But only a true gormles plonker would cheer on Sunak and crew.
If you think MAGA hate immigrants now you will be amazed at how much that would multiply in a free to use health service.
Real talk though, people love the NHS but I’m not sure it’s the best system for outcomes. Nor is the insurance whackery in the US. Mixed systems tend to perform better in terms of cost and health outcomes.
Bigots will always find an excuse to be bigots. That’s not a reason to appease them.
I can absolutely agree that the NHS is not perfect. Getting rid of it would be the exact wrong thing to do however. It absolutely has some issues that need to be addressed. But switching to an insurance only model is not going to address that in any meaningful manner. And I think it’s also important to point out that the claims of waiting weeks for a simple appointment are slightly disingenuous. That’s only if the NHS is your only option. There are private insurance plans and coverage even over there. Having National Health Care does not preclude having private insurance. Nor does having a private insurance mean that you’re not going to be waiting weeks. Currently over here in the land of the free. You have to schedule appointments months out with many practitioners. Unless you’re actively bleeding out or close to death. So private insurance is definitely not some Panacea.
Actually the problems with the nhs aren’t inherent to the nhs. To problem with Healthcare and Society in general. With birth rates dropping across the globe. Far more people are retiring, dying Etc than being born. And of that reduced volume being born there’s simply not enough of them trained and qualified to be Medical Healthcare practitioners. This was something that was always coming.
Also would like to point out. In the US at least. We’ve allowed cocaine and amphetamine addicts set unrealistic standards in the medical profession that drive a lot of people away as well.
The reason China has similar policies is because socialism/communism doesn’t work without a capitalist cow to milk.
Do you understand what capitalism is relative to socialism/communism? That the entire premise is that no person owns the means of production, and therefore has zero stake in its success beyond their immediate involvement? How do you motivate people to reach for more, innovate, and strive for greatness when there is no semblance of capitalist enterprise? Nationalist pride? Do you threaten them? How many of the hundreds of examples do you need to see that this does not work?
Star Trek is a beautiful concept on paper - but that’s the problem: as soon as you add humans, it goes to shit. Just look at the Hamas/Israel nonsense. Hamas literally does not care about their lives or children’s lives… The civilians are literally putting out videos stating they will intentionally put themselves under incoming bombs “because this is how we will prove your brutality”.
There’s no chance as long as society has free will. There’s just no way for anything else to work in the long run.
How do you motivate people to reach for more, he asks, on a platform that is literally developed for free. Have you ever thought that people do certain things because they like them ? I see not every job is likable tho. But that’s a different problem, we can try to solve by technology. I know my opinion is also biased but in the end we should try to a bit more open minded.
That is definitely not the flex you thought it was.
Yes, lots of individuals so lots of fun individual things that can be done by individuals for free - hell, you might even find enough people to do an entire open source project!
But guess what?
Those people have actual jobs. You’re pointing at hobbies that only exist because free time is afforded by decent jobs.
Real talk. Socialism works great for much of europe. Look into england, austria, pretty much any Scandinavian country they all have programs and systems focused on supporting workers. That they would never give up.
Second are we talking Big C or little c communism. They are different things. And you are wrong immediately off the bat. Under communism which is not defined as socialism in its entirety. No single person owns the means of production. But people do own the means of production. Under big C communism, let’s call it what it is leninism. They have a warped and twisted definition of who the people are. Expanding it out to a single Nationwide party and that party’s dictatorial leader. That’s very different from communism. Under communism the workers own the means of production. Meaning that if you work in a factory. As a worker of the factory you own a piece of, and have a stake in the factory and its success.
If people require capitalism to motivate them to strive for more. How did we get where we are? Capitalism has only existed a few hundred years. Human history goes back tens of thousands of years. How does that work? Because it really seems like we don’t need capitalism for that. And there’s no evidence showing that communism hinders it either. You do realize that even under the warped leninism that the Soviets used. They industrialized, expanded, had scientific and technological progress alongside the rest of the world. That doesn’t excuse the atrocities that they committed or the capitalists have committed. But that sure doesn’t seem like it puts a damper on striving for more etc.
And if human nature is the biggest roadblock to socialism as you say it is. It’s just as big or bigger a roadblock to capitalism. Your argument against socialism is more of an argument against capitalism. Think about that. I think you mean well. But I also think you have very little idea about what you’re talking about. Which isn’t an insult. When it comes to some Western Nations and especially the united states. We are washed in propaganda and purposefully miseducated.
As an Englishman it’s very adorable you think we have anything resembling a socialist system just because we have free healthcare.
It’s literally the only thing you have that’s even close. But you wouldn’t give it up. It’s certainly not a capitalist system. Prove how capitalist you are though. Give it up for a system like America’s if you think it’s so adorable.
Strictly speaking universal healthcare isn’t socialist. But it is a logical outcome of socialist policy.
We basically are getting rid slowly mate. They don’t tell you how it takes weeks to see a doctor, or how waiting times for operations are sometimes years.
Weeks to see a doctor is better than not getting to see a doctor. And yes your fascist Tories are working like our fascist Republicans would to get rid of it. But only a true gormles plonker would cheer on Sunak and crew.
If you think MAGA hate immigrants now you will be amazed at how much that would multiply in a free to use health service.
Real talk though, people love the NHS but I’m not sure it’s the best system for outcomes. Nor is the insurance whackery in the US. Mixed systems tend to perform better in terms of cost and health outcomes.
Bigots will always find an excuse to be bigots. That’s not a reason to appease them.
I can absolutely agree that the NHS is not perfect. Getting rid of it would be the exact wrong thing to do however. It absolutely has some issues that need to be addressed. But switching to an insurance only model is not going to address that in any meaningful manner. And I think it’s also important to point out that the claims of waiting weeks for a simple appointment are slightly disingenuous. That’s only if the NHS is your only option. There are private insurance plans and coverage even over there. Having National Health Care does not preclude having private insurance. Nor does having a private insurance mean that you’re not going to be waiting weeks. Currently over here in the land of the free. You have to schedule appointments months out with many practitioners. Unless you’re actively bleeding out or close to death. So private insurance is definitely not some Panacea.
Actually the problems with the nhs aren’t inherent to the nhs. To problem with Healthcare and Society in general. With birth rates dropping across the globe. Far more people are retiring, dying Etc than being born. And of that reduced volume being born there’s simply not enough of them trained and qualified to be Medical Healthcare practitioners. This was something that was always coming.
Also would like to point out. In the US at least. We’ve allowed cocaine and amphetamine addicts set unrealistic standards in the medical profession that drive a lot of people away as well.