It’s like people are just now noticing that they have zero ability to control their own digital lives because they traded it all away in order to not have to take the time to learn how to do things for themselves.
not trying to be rude, but it’s easy to get tunnel vision especially with tech spaces. before becoming involved in tech i had no idea that linux was even a thing. most of these people need education, they just didn’t know their options. they didn’t “choose” to throw away their rights because they didn’t know they had a choice.
I have been offering 1:1 chats on signal to anyone who wants help switching to Linux.
Asking questions in forums and social media is intimidating. I despise the snobbery that often represents this community. I just want to help people regain some control over their digital lives.
I would be interested. So far I can’t say that I have ever been helped on social media or dedicated forums when it comes to Linux. It went mostly like this:
Me: “I have problem X. How can I solve it or at least get closer to a solution?”
Answer: “Lol, you idiot, you don’t even know how to do that!”
Me: “No, I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking. So what do I have to do? Edit a certain script? Get a certain program?”
Answer: “Grow a brain you noob!”
(Rinse and repeat)
Alternative answer, rarely: (Crickets)
I came to two conclusions because of this. First: The Linux community has the highest density of trolls of all communities. By far. Second: None of those people actually knew the answer to any of my questions, otherwise narcissism would have kicked in at least once and made someone slip a solution, just to brag with their knowledge and skills. Which means that the Linux community is also the least tech-savvy community as well. By far. So if someone actually knows something about Linux, they can’t be found in any Linux-dedicated place. At all.
Everything I learned about Linux to this day is based on trial-and-error. But I don’t have the time anymore to do that and it’s in general too time-consuming to reinstall distros over and over again because I went too far when trying something new. Currently I’m using Mint to browse the internet or do office tasks. But I would like to do more, like running certain Windows programs like DAWs with low latency. Or raising the polling rate of USB mice above 10 Hz (as in ten - that’s not a typo). Fortunately, copying or moving more than 1 GB to or from USB sticks without crashing the entire machine (no matter if NTFS or ExFAT) was solved last year, probably because of a kernel update. Well, it’s a work-in-progress-project, I know that Linux is more of a beta version of an OS and it’s free, I’m not complaining about such issues. I’m experimenting, having a look what can be done.
I’m okay with things actually not being possible. I would never complain about ReactOS not running modern Windows programs either. But I’m tired of Linux trolls claiming all kinds of stuff without ever providing any description, tutorial or evidence. And I’m tired of them insulting me because I don’t know something they obviously don’t know either. It’s ridiculous. So yeah, I’m still interested in talking to a single person who might actually know something and who is not part of “that Linux community”.
Up until now, we’ve been hiding it in wikis and books, where we know nobody will look. 😂
There are some user friendly distributions, but even they will be uncomfortable and frustrating to use when you’re new.
Having to relearn how to use a computer is daunting for people. It’s a lot easier to just touch an app and have the instant gratification.
The point of all of these apps and services is to get people dependent on them so that they’re unwilling to leave because the alternative requires effort. I don’t know that Linux, as a whole, can ever be that user friendly. But, eventually some people will be tired of being squeezed for cash and spyed on just to save a few weeks of reading and learning.
Emphasis on “friendly” because there’s a big “RTFM” issue on some Linux communities. Sure, it can be annoying getting the same questions constantly. But the “RTFM” response is condescending and artificially inflates the barrier to entry. People shouldn’t be expected to read, understand, and remember 200 pages of dense documentation just to learn how to update their graphics drivers. If someone is learning how to drive, telling them “read the owner’s manual for your car” is just toxic. Sure the owners manual will have lots of useful info, but that doesn’t actually help the person who is trying to get started.
At the very least, point them in the right direction. You can say “RTFM” while still being helpful. Oh, you want to know how to do something specific via CLI? Cool, here’s a link to that specific section, which explains what the command you need does. As it currently stands, a lot of the most crucial info for newcomers is buried in obscure wiki articles and books. And longtime Linux users treat the struggle like a rite of passage. But not everyone is interested in that; They just want to ditch Windows because they can’t install Win11, and they’re looking for friendly alternatives.
Linux has historically been a space for tech people and so the default assumption is that the user is competent (jokes aside…) and capable of understanding technical writing.
So, naturally, if a person asks a question which is answered in the documentation then they’re reminded that the answers exist already in the expected places and asking other people to do your own research for you rude.
The Linux demographic is shifting and we need to adjust, but cultural norms change slowly.
and they’re looking for friendly alternatives.
I think that this is part of the trap that keeps people stuck in the spyware/enshittification market.
Technology is complicated.
Try to imagine, from a technical point of view, how complex it is to run a service like Netflix. There are a lot of highly trained people designing, managing and maintaining the various systems to run the service that lets a user touch a picture on their phone screen to see a movie.
The user has an easy, friendly experience but that’s only because Netflix handles all of the complexity. This seems like a good deal initially. I mean, $10$12$15 $19.99/mo is a good price to pay to not have to know how to do all of that.
But, now the user is completely dependent on service providers to stand between them and the complexity of technology so they never have a chance to learn because they never see how anything works.
This Faustian bargain is what lets these companies continue to spy on people and jack up the price of services while offering less service. Where are the users going to go?
Linux and the open source community offer a different bargain. You have to learn how to do things for yourself, but now you have actual meaningful choices about how you use technology and a community of people who are trying to solve the same problems as you.
Sure, it isn’t as easy. But easy isn’t free, and I’m tired of paying what they want to charge.
My literal job consists of helping other (generally much less technically savvy) representatives provide support to our end users, and it being their literal job to provide “tech” help to users is still not enough of an incentive for 80+% of them to learn anything beyond basic computing. Sometimes it’s like pulling teeth just to get a fucking click path or screenshot of what’s actually happening.
Now expand that out to now I am not getting paid to help people and those asking for help are often VERY entitled that they deserve to have their hand held through the entire process. It’s frustrating and often thankless.
You can on Linux just saying
It’s like people are just now noticing that they have zero ability to control their own digital lives because they traded it all away in order to not have to take the time to learn how to do things for themselves.
not trying to be rude, but it’s easy to get tunnel vision especially with tech spaces. before becoming involved in tech i had no idea that linux was even a thing. most of these people need education, they just didn’t know their options. they didn’t “choose” to throw away their rights because they didn’t know they had a choice.
I agree with this.
We all need to make what we know freely available in a friendly manner to make the path to Linux easier and more fun.
I have been offering 1:1 chats on signal to anyone who wants help switching to Linux.
Asking questions in forums and social media is intimidating. I despise the snobbery that often represents this community. I just want to help people regain some control over their digital lives.
I would be interested. So far I can’t say that I have ever been helped on social media or dedicated forums when it comes to Linux. It went mostly like this:
Me: “I have problem X. How can I solve it or at least get closer to a solution?”
Answer: “Lol, you idiot, you don’t even know how to do that!”
Me: “No, I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking. So what do I have to do? Edit a certain script? Get a certain program?”
Answer: “Grow a brain you noob!”
(Rinse and repeat)
Alternative answer, rarely: (Crickets)
I came to two conclusions because of this. First: The Linux community has the highest density of trolls of all communities. By far. Second: None of those people actually knew the answer to any of my questions, otherwise narcissism would have kicked in at least once and made someone slip a solution, just to brag with their knowledge and skills. Which means that the Linux community is also the least tech-savvy community as well. By far. So if someone actually knows something about Linux, they can’t be found in any Linux-dedicated place. At all.
Everything I learned about Linux to this day is based on trial-and-error. But I don’t have the time anymore to do that and it’s in general too time-consuming to reinstall distros over and over again because I went too far when trying something new. Currently I’m using Mint to browse the internet or do office tasks. But I would like to do more, like running certain Windows programs like DAWs with low latency. Or raising the polling rate of USB mice above 10 Hz (as in ten - that’s not a typo). Fortunately, copying or moving more than 1 GB to or from USB sticks without crashing the entire machine (no matter if NTFS or ExFAT) was solved last year, probably because of a kernel update. Well, it’s a work-in-progress-project, I know that Linux is more of a beta version of an OS and it’s free, I’m not complaining about such issues. I’m experimenting, having a look what can be done.
I’m okay with things actually not being possible. I would never complain about ReactOS not running modern Windows programs either. But I’m tired of Linux trolls claiming all kinds of stuff without ever providing any description, tutorial or evidence. And I’m tired of them insulting me because I don’t know something they obviously don’t know either. It’s ridiculous. So yeah, I’m still interested in talking to a single person who might actually know something and who is not part of “that Linux community”.
Man you are doing <insert deity>'s work there
Up until now, we’ve been hiding it in wikis and books, where we know nobody will look. 😂
There are some user friendly distributions, but even they will be uncomfortable and frustrating to use when you’re new.
Having to relearn how to use a computer is daunting for people. It’s a lot easier to just touch an app and have the instant gratification.
The point of all of these apps and services is to get people dependent on them so that they’re unwilling to leave because the alternative requires effort. I don’t know that Linux, as a whole, can ever be that user friendly. But, eventually some people will be tired of being squeezed for cash and spyed on just to save a few weeks of reading and learning.
Emphasis on “friendly” because there’s a big “RTFM” issue on some Linux communities. Sure, it can be annoying getting the same questions constantly. But the “RTFM” response is condescending and artificially inflates the barrier to entry. People shouldn’t be expected to read, understand, and remember 200 pages of dense documentation just to learn how to update their graphics drivers. If someone is learning how to drive, telling them “read the owner’s manual for your car” is just toxic. Sure the owners manual will have lots of useful info, but that doesn’t actually help the person who is trying to get started.
At the very least, point them in the right direction. You can say “RTFM” while still being helpful. Oh, you want to know how to do something specific via CLI? Cool, here’s a link to that specific section, which explains what the command you need does. As it currently stands, a lot of the most crucial info for newcomers is buried in obscure wiki articles and books. And longtime Linux users treat the struggle like a rite of passage. But not everyone is interested in that; They just want to ditch Windows because they can’t install Win11, and they’re looking for friendly alternatives.
I do agree with a lot of what you’re saying.
Linux has historically been a space for tech people and so the default assumption is that the user is competent (jokes aside…) and capable of understanding technical writing.
So, naturally, if a person asks a question which is answered in the documentation then they’re reminded that the answers exist already in the expected places and asking other people to do your own research for you rude.
The Linux demographic is shifting and we need to adjust, but cultural norms change slowly.
I think that this is part of the trap that keeps people stuck in the spyware/enshittification market.
Technology is complicated.
Try to imagine, from a technical point of view, how complex it is to run a service like Netflix. There are a lot of highly trained people designing, managing and maintaining the various systems to run the service that lets a user touch a picture on their phone screen to see a movie.
The user has an easy, friendly experience but that’s only because Netflix handles all of the complexity. This seems like a good deal initially. I mean,
$10$12$15$19.99/mo is a good price to pay to not have to know how to do all of that.But, now the user is completely dependent on service providers to stand between them and the complexity of technology so they never have a chance to learn because they never see how anything works.
This Faustian bargain is what lets these companies continue to spy on people and jack up the price of services while offering less service. Where are the users going to go?
Linux and the open source community offer a different bargain. You have to learn how to do things for yourself, but now you have actual meaningful choices about how you use technology and a community of people who are trying to solve the same problems as you.
Sure, it isn’t as easy. But easy isn’t free, and I’m tired of paying what they want to charge.
My literal job consists of helping other (generally much less technically savvy) representatives provide support to our end users, and it being their literal job to provide “tech” help to users is still not enough of an incentive for 80+% of them to learn anything beyond basic computing. Sometimes it’s like pulling teeth just to get a fucking click path or screenshot of what’s actually happening.
Now expand that out to now I am not getting paid to help people and those asking for help are often VERY entitled that they deserve to have their hand held through the entire process. It’s frustrating and often thankless.
There’s an older manual for how to ask a “hacker” for technical help that I think is so spot on for setting proper expectations: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html